Prodex Sleeping Pads?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

A company called Prodex makes some interesting home insulation products that might be useful as a sleeping pad or winter sleeping pad supplement.

Prodex makes two interesting products:

1 – Prodex Total
This is basically 5mm thick closed cell polyethylene foam with a reflective coating on both sides:

They claim an R-value of 6-15, but that assumes an air space of a couple inches. It'd be much lower when used as a sleep pad but I can't guess how low. The weight is not listed but it sure looks darn light. The smallest roll you can order is 4' x 25' and $60 which would make you 8 pads….that's just $7.50 per 24" x 74" pad.

A good application might be a torso sized piece under your regular sleeping pad to extend it's use into the winter.

You can get a free 8" x 10" sample for $3.95 shipping here:
http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-16-Prodex-Free-8-inch-x-10-inch-sample.aspx

2 – Prodex Reflective-Bubble-Reflective
This product is the same reflective layers but with polyethylene bubble wrap inside. Thickness is 4mm.

I'd grab a sample from them but their shipping rates to Canada are ridiculous ($60-$100). Even a free 8" x 10" sample could make a good sit pad at virtually no weight I bet. Anyone wanna grab a $60 4' x 25' roll of Prodex Total and divide it up :)

[James holden]

look a lot like the reflectix you find at home depot

[Bob Gross]

Yup. Sure looks like Reflectix. Find it at Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and Lowes.

–B.G.–

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Reflectix makes a bubble wrap based product that is a lot like the second Prodex product. However, Reflectix is likely a lot heavier as it's 8mm thick instead of 4-5mm.

I also like the idea of using CCF inside like Prodex Total, instead of bubble wrap, because the CCF seems more durable.

Reflectix:

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Reflectix claims an R value of 1.1 for their product if there is zero air space on either side.

Prodex total is thinner, but the CCF also looks more insulating than bubble wrap, so I'd wildly guess the R-value of Prodex Total is around 0.8 – 1.5. That's not a lot on it's own, but it would be a good boost under a NeoAir (R 2.5) for winter use. There are other thin pads that could provide this boost, the Prodex Total looks like it could be lighter.

[Tyson Marshall]

Hi Dan,

Just ordered a free sample. Let's see what we can do here…

Cheers.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Nice!

If you can, let us know what it weighs so we can extrapolate that to a larger pad.

[Tyson Marshall]

Of course! As soon as I get it, I'll weigh it and post. Thanks for the information.

[Anonymous]

"Yup. Sure looks like Reflectix. Find it at Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and Lowes."

Has anybody tried it in the field? If so, how did it hold up under field conditions? If it is durable enough, it looks like a great alternative to GG Thinlite.

[James holden]

where did u get the 1.1 R value for dan?

http://www.glacierbay.com/Instresult.asp

i think the R value is under 1 for reflectix …

i was thinking about using it while shopping at HD a while back … but after doing some research, it seems like the yellow MEC foam pads work better for the weight

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

If enough people are interested we could do a collective buy of the Prodex Total. The closed cell foam Prodex Total seems more durable and lighter than Reflectix.

A 4' x 25' roll of Prodex Total is $60 + $20 shipping w/n USA and it would make 8 pads…so that's $10/pad plus shipping from whoever placed the group order to you.

A 4' 50' roll is $90 + $20 shipping or $7/pad for 16 pads.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"Where did u get the 1.1 R value for dan?"

Off Reflectix's site:

"It seems like the yellow MEC foam pads work better for the weight."

The yellow (Evazote) MEC pads are pretty darn heavy and the R-value is pretty low. The lightest one is 60" x 20&quot and 5mm thick. It's 6.2oz and has a R-value of 0.66. A theoretical full length (72") version of this would be 7.5oz which is a lot of weight for not much R-value.

I'm hoping the Prodex Total weighs 1/3rd of that and has a nearly double the R-value. Even if the reflective layers do very little, the CCF looks extremely light for CCF.

[James holden]

dan …

the reflectix is listed as 1.25 oz/ ft2 … so 11.25 oz/ yd 2 … for an R value of 1.1 if we accept the manuf claim (see the link I posted) … which is an R per oz/yd of 0.097

the mec yellow standard 13.75 oz / yd if my math is correct … for an R value of 1.6 .. R per oz/yd of 0.116

the mec yellow thermalest zlite (the one i was taking about) is 12.93 oz / yd 2 … for an R value of 2.2 … giving and R per oz/yd of 0.17

unless my math is way off (i AM azn … lol) … relfectix isnt worth it for this application

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

HomeDepot lists a 4' x 25' roll of Reflectix at 6 lbs, which is 0.95oz/ft2:
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/building-materials/insulation/reflectix/4-ft-x-25-ft-double-reflective-insulation-20958.html

I suspect even this weight is too high because 6 lbs seems to be the weight they use to calculating shipping costs so it's probably a bit inflated. I'd guess it's the actual product is more like 0.75oz/ft2, but that's just a guess.

Prodex should be quite a bit lighter still because it's 5mm thick instead of 8mm. I think 0.5oz/ft2 is a reasonable estimate. That would put Prodex Total at 3.5oz for a 20" x 48" pad or 5.25oz for a full 6' pad.

Comparing Full Length Pads Weight vs. R-Value:
NeoAir: R 2.5 / 14oz = .18
Prodex Total: R 1.1 / 5.25oz = .21
ZLite: R 2.2 / 14oz = .16
RidgeRest: R 2.6 / 14oz = .19
RidgeRest Solar: R 3.5 / 19oz = .19

Of course the Prodex R value and weight are based on wild assumptions. The R value of the Prodex Total is really an unknown because CCF is quite a bit different than bubble wrap Reflectix.

[James holden]

its 1.25 oz/ft according to their lit …

http://reflectixinc.cskern.com/images/uploads/allpdfs/f3%20oem%20guide.pdf

the numbers for prodex look very very optimistic …

i suspect that if it really was that good, someone would have sold it for camping already …

[Bob Gross]

"Has anybody tried it in the field? If so, how did it hold up under field conditions? "

I've used it for the normal items like a food cozy, stove windshield, etc. I made some reflectix shower slippers.

It is not nearly as tough as closed cell foam, but then it is just filled up with air bubbles.

–B.G.–

[Tyson Marshall]

I haven't been home in a few days, but I'm hoping the Prodex sample is there! I will keep you updated – just wanted to let you know I didn't forget!

[Tyson Marshall]

Alright, the results are in.

Prodex Total observations:

Thickness: .125 to .187" (3.175 to 4.7625mm)

Weight: .48oz (~13.61g) for an 8" x 10" sample piece (there was a sticker, slapped on the surface, covering almost half of one side, that I couldn't entirely remove… weight should be SLIGHTLY less)

So, if I did my math right, a 24" x 74" pad would weigh ~ 10.66oz

That's all I've got for now…

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks Tyson!

So that works out to 0.89oz/sq ft or 8.6oz for 20" x 72" pad. That's not bad, but a bit heavier than hoped.

The real unknown here is the R-value. If the CCF foam provides a significantly better R-value than the bubble wrap used in Reflectix then it could be a good product.

It seems like Prodex might be a decent pad option, but it's not going to be a radical improvement over what's out there. At 8.6oz for a R 1.1 20" x 72" pad, you're getting 0.13 R-value per ounce of weight, which is actually worse than a lot of other options out there as posted previously in this thread. However, it's possible that the R-value might be a bit higher. If it was R-1.5, then it would good R-value for the weight.

[Tyson Marshall]

At lunch, I converted the prodex sample into a cozy for my Snow Peak 600ml Titanium Mug. (first cozy experience)

I filled the mug with hot water (not boiling) from the hot water dispenser at work and put it in the cozy w/ a prodex lid. It's been 1.75 hours and the water is still too hot to gulp down….

Because I don't have any experience with other cozies, I don't know if this is bad, normal, or great.

No exact numbers here, just thought I'd share some observations…

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

That sounds pretty good to me but maybe someone with more cozy experience could chime in.

It's too bad that we don't have a way to test the R-value of this material. I wonder if there is someone here on BPL that would test a sample?

[Tyson Marshall]

"The smallest roll you can order is 4' x 25' and $60 which would make you 8 pads….that's just $7.50 per 24" x 74" pad"

– I'd be willing to go into this with a few people. Any takers?

[James holden]

someone needs to test the R value of prodex and reflectix in a backpacking set up … at the end of the day i doubt you'd save very much

interesting note that the el cheapo MEC blue foamy is actually more efficient than the more expensive evazote …just less durable … hmmmm

and the RR solar is da boomba for foooamy efficiency

prodex …7.78 oz / yd 2 … assume R value of 1.1 then … R per oz/yd of 0.14 … if R of 1.3 then R per oz/yd of 0.17 …. note that i seriously doubt tat a 5 mm thickness gives you anywhere near these R values … the R values for the blue and yellow mec below are for 1 CM pads, double the thickness of the prodex

the reflectix is listed as 1.25 oz/ ft2 … so 11.25 oz/ yd 2 … for an R value of 1.1 if we accept the manuf claim … which is an R per oz/yd of 0.097

the mec blue standard 9.25 oz / yd if my math is correct … for an R value of 1.36 .. R per oz/yd of 0.146

the mec yellow standard 13.75 oz / yd if my math is correct … for an R value of 1.6 .. R per oz/yd of 0.116

the yellow thermalest zlite is 12.93 oz / yd 2 … for an R value of 2.2 … giving and R per oz/yd of 0.17

the RR Solar is 17 oz / yd 2 … for an R value of 3.6 … giving and R per oz/yd of 0.21

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Tyson…I'd be in for a pads worth of Prodex and I'd pay double the $7.50/pad cost. I can't place the order because I'm in Canada and Prodex wants $100 to ship a roll here which is insane. I'd pay you $15 + $10 shipping for a 2' x 6' length. $10 should easily cover shipping via the cheapest option (USPS First Class Mail International). If we could get 2-3 more people this could work.

Eric…I agree with your analysis but I do have 2 points to add. Also the RR Solar is R 3.5, not 3.6.

1) The RR Solar is indeed the standout in terms of warmth for the weight, but a lot of times this much R-value isn't needed. I personally have no need to add R-3.6 to my sleep system, so I'm looking for the pad that will add about R-1 for the least weight. With my NeoAir I've fairly pretty well on snow on several occasions and I'm just looking for a little extra safety margin.

2) This sorta goes against point #1, but I think there is a real possibility that Prodex will do better than R-1.1. Reflectix uses large bubbles which offer very little insulating value since the air is free to move around in the bubbles. Prodex uses CCF between the reflective layers, so it should be more insulating as the air can not move around nearly as much.

Prodex is almost like a thinner version of the RR solar. Both are CCF pads with reflective layers. Based on this, we can calculate a very rough R-value estimate for Prodex:

The RR solar is 19mm thick. We know the R-value of it without the reflective layer (3.1) because the old RidgeRest Deluxe is the same thing without the reflective layer. The R-value of CCF foam rises linearly, so a 5mm thick version of the RR Deluxe would be R-0.8. So Prodex at 5mm thick should be about R-0.8 plus the benefit of the reflective layer. This isn't totally accurate since they are different kinds of CCF, but I think we're in the same ballpark here.

We know that the reflective layer on the RR Solar adds R-0.4 even though it's only reflective on the top side. Prodex is reflective on both sides. The reflective stuff on the bottom probably won't do much, but it might help a bit. So as a rough estimate, Prodex should be about R-0.8 (5mm CCF) + R-0.4 (Reflective on top) + maybe a little more (R-0.1?) for the bottom reflectivity. So that adds up to a very rough estimate of R-1.3.

There's a huge number of assumptions in the above calculation and you could easily pick that estimate apart, but I think that the point stands that if you are looking for a pad to add about 1 to 1.5 R to your sleep system then Prodex does stand out as being the lightest option mentioned so far that does this.

Perhaps we could send a sample of Prodex to a BPL tester? I think Roger Caffin did R-value tests for that recent POE review and perhaps he could test a sample?

[James holden]

dan … the RR has air gaps in the ridges between yourself and the pad

since prodex is foam … my bet is that it wont be much better or worse than putting mylar film on both sides of a cheap foam pad

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