Oct 18, 2010 at 3:32 am #1264505
I've been trying to find reviews and comments about this quilt, with little success. In particular I am wondering whether anyone could give their opinion of the manufacturer's temperature rating. The earlier Ultra 20 quilt was often criticised for an overly optimistic rating: does the 40 degree quilt seem more accurate? At half the price of some alternatives the GoLite is appealing, if not quite the lightest thing out there, but not if it doesn't offer the promised warmth.Oct 20, 2010 at 3:23 pm #1656394
Just one quick bump before I let this thread drift off to the horizon… Does anyone have experience of using the 2010 GoLite quilts?Oct 20, 2010 at 5:43 pm #1656449
The new ratings should be more accurate. The old Ultra 20 had 9.5oz of down, whereas the new 20F rated quilt from Golite (3+ Season quilt) has ~11.3oz, which is consistent with what you see in other 20F rated quilts. The new 1+ season quilt has 7.5-8oz of down as I recall, so it should be fairly true to the 40F rating.Oct 20, 2010 at 6:24 pm #1656460
@elf773Locale: Vancouver, BC
I was with a friend on an overnighter who used the Golite 1+ season quilt. She is about 5'3-4"/110-115 lbs, and used a sized small quilt (53" width I believe).
We slept in fully closed up Tarptent Double Rainbow, using a rectangular Big Agnes insulated aircore.
Our campsite was sheltered by trees, about 100 ft away from a large lake at 1475m/5000ft. The low that night was about 7*C/44*F. I'd say at least 80% humidity.
We ate a very large spaghetti and meat sauce dinner immediately before turning in. She wore a fleece sweater (I'd guess 200 wt or more), long sleeve synthetic base, my sleeping socks along with hers, a wool beanie, long underwear, eventually her hiking pants and then my eVent specter shell. She's a back-sleeper.
She was very cold.
I'd have given her my palisade, but her quilt was way too small for me. I ended up draping one side of my quilt over her, her snuggling close…. maybe that was her plan..jk, and her making claims of me trying to kill her.
It is very light and packs very small, and in warmer temps she was very happy with it. The finish was quite nice.
We returned it immediately after so have no other experience with it at lowish temps. She forgot the straps and it was too late to fidget around with the quilt. Also she made the mistake of wearing a cotton longsleeve shirt that got sweat soaked, was cold for the first half hour coming into camp (had no idea), and was pretty fatiqued. So YMMV..Oct 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm #1656467
@areichowLocale: Northern Minnesota
I have the new 3 season quilt and really like it. It has a bad rap around here, but I think it is mostly undeserved- any realistically rated 20 deg F quilt that's 1 lb 8 oz is a marvel as far as I'm concerned.
Hasn't reached the 20s yet, but I was very warm in the low 30s in t-shirt, underwear, merino socks and a wool watchcap. Definitely warmer than in my 30 degree bag.
Never used the 1 season, though!Oct 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm #1656469
the ole bring too lite a bag so that people will snuggle up to me trick …
havent dont that one in a while … lol
remember that girls sleep alot colder than guys for example the marmot atom a 40F bag is EN rated for men to 43F … but to women for 50F
quilts arent EN rated … so you its like a box of chocolates … u never know what yr gonna get ;)
quilts arent much ligher than bags once you figure in the weight for head insulation … a WM 35-40F bag is as light as the golite 1 seasonand likely warmer to bootOct 20, 2010 at 9:12 pm #1656508
"…quilts arent much ligher than bags once you figure in the weight for head insulation …"
On the contrary, a properly made quilt will be a lot lighter than a bag, since head insulation will be carried regardless of whether you are bringing a quilt or a bag. My older golite ultra 20 weighs less than a WM summerlite yet it'll take me down to 20-30 degrees since I'd be utilizing the same head (warm beanie) and body insulation (down jacket) I would have been wearing around camp anyways. Quilts eliminate redundancy and hence shave weight.
Can't say much about the new generation golite quilt, since you're right…for the same weight, you might as well get the WM summerlite. But when you are looking at high end quilts from nunatak, katabatic, enlightened, stateless society, JRB, etc …then you can make substantial weight savings and still be just as warm as an equivalent rated bag.
This of course only holds true if you plan on packing clothes for hanging around camp. If your style is to hike to camp and jump immediately into your sleeping bag, and even cook from your sleeping bag, then yes you're not saving much weight over a bag i guess. But I don't know many people who do this either, and if they do, im sure it's wise to still bring insulation as a margin of safetyOct 20, 2010 at 9:17 pm #1656512
Eric, I usually use my Cocoon Hoody to sleep. So it is used around camp to stay warm and then doubles as part of my sleep system. As a result it does double duty. I then am able to use a much lighter quilt (as compared to an UL mummy bag) as the layering helps to push it to lower temps.Oct 20, 2010 at 9:28 pm #1656514
once you add a hood on an arc alpinist quilt its 24 oz (20 + 4 hood) … vs 21 oz for the alpinist bag (quantum medium both) … so yr only saving 1-2 oz with a quilt … same brand for both for a fair comparison
there's no reason why i cant use my down/syn puffy or normal clothing with a sleeping just as people do with quilts … climbers do it all the time
there was a time when quilts had a major advantage over low fill bags, but with high quality bags these days … it isnt that much of one at allOct 20, 2010 at 9:43 pm #1656517
Nice….quilt vs. bag debates are always fun.
Regarding the Alpinist (bag) vs. Arc Alpinist (quilt) comparison, the problem here is that the bag is not going to be nearly as warm as the quilt and shouldn't be rated at 20F like the quilt IMO. The quilt has 11oz of down which is consistent with quilts from other brands rated at 20F (ie. Golite 3+ Season). However the bag barely contains are more down (just 11.5oz) even though a significant portion of it gets compressed under you. I don't think you'll find another sleeping bag rated to 20F that contains a mere 11.5oz of down. A look at Western Mountaineerings lineup reveals they use 16-19oz of down to create their 20F rated bag (ie. Ultralight, Alpinlite). Even their 30F rated Megalight (12oz down) uses more down that the Alpinist Bag. So essentially, this is comparing a quilt accurately rated to 20F with a very optimistically rated bag.Oct 20, 2010 at 9:50 pm #1656522
Eric- missed the point completely.
You should be able to use a quilt that much lighter than what you are suggesting – i.e. a quilte rated to 45 degrees and then layer in a jacket to push you to freezing. That quilt using 800 dn would likely weigh less than a pound. You are simply comparing a quilt to a bag. A quilt works into a sleep system and should allow you to take a much lighter quilt than a relevant bag. If not, you are doing something wrong.
Yes climbers to it all the time (I am one).Oct 20, 2010 at 9:54 pm #1656524
why cant you take a 40 deg bag instead of the quilt and layer yr clothes as well … and yes i do this too ;)
as to the alpinist … what rating is accurate then … its all like a box a chocolates ;)Oct 20, 2010 at 9:57 pm #1656525
Well you can, except that a 40 degree bag with hood v.s. a 40 degree quilt, assuming the same fabrics used and down fill, should weigh about 8 oz more. Then consider that you could even use a warmer rated quilt (i.e. say 50 degrees) and use your Hoody to push it back down to 40 degrees. Saving of more than 8 oz in this case.Oct 20, 2010 at 10:06 pm #1656527
"as to the alpinist … what rating is accurate then … its all like a box a chocolates ;)"
Typically a bag with 11.5oz of 800fp down is going to get a 30-35F rating. I bet you can't find another bag that has ~11.5oz of down and a 20F rating. Conversely, it's easy to find other 20F quilts with the same amount of down as the Arc Alpinist quilt. So based on the market, the 20F rating of the quilt seems accurate but the 20F rating of the bag appears way optimistic.Oct 20, 2010 at 10:09 pm #1656528
well lets do some math (azns are good at that)
assuming we have a pound to work with .. you can get an arc alpinist/ghost which are "rated" to 32 deg … a WM highlight which is "rated" to 35 deg (id trust that rating) …
for 11-12 oz you can get an arc edge 11 oz "rated" to 40F … or a Minim Ultra Down Sleeping Bag 12 oz rated to 46F (id trust the euro rating more)
this is top end vs top end … and the bags have a hood to boot …
the diff is likely less than 4 oz or so once you put everything together … and more idiot proof to bootOct 20, 2010 at 10:13 pm #1656529
Aha, it's alive! :-)
Thanks all for the responses, especially the detailed description from Scott. I'd certainly have been warmer in the same situation, but this gives me a much better idea than I had previously of whether I'd have been warm enough.
On the wider debate, it's not solely a matter of weight to me. Cost comes into it, as does my build (a little too broad for many of the skinner quilts and bags) and the fact that I simply prefer quilts, but I have been comparing all the options.Oct 20, 2010 at 10:41 pm #1656534
yes, im actually stellar at math…
Your first comparison isnt really fair. the WM is sewn through, but the arc edge is baffled. Because of this consturction, by default, the quilt is warmer. Likewise, the arc edge uses all the insulation on top of you, while the bag utilizes part of its down insulation underneath you, where it's crushed, resulting in very little insulation
Your second example speaks for itself. Why carry the same weight and lose 6 degrees of warmth? Another way to look at it is this…I'm going to have a down jacket of some sort anyways, since i'll be using it around camp before I sleep, and after I wake up. If i couple that with the 11 oz arc edge, I can push that bag down to the low 30's. All that for only 11oz. Where else am I going to find a bag that will be adequate in the low 30's and only weighing in at 11oz? You could get a WM summerlite but that weighs 19 oz. I'm shaving half a pound by making use of stuff I'll be putting in my backpack anyways.
And a quilt isn't rocket science. As a matter of fact I have an easier time getting in and out of one when compared to bags that utilize half zippers to shave weight.
The basic idea of the quilt is that it's utilizing the same amount of down fill, but giving you more warmth, since all the down is being place ontop and around you, as opposed to a bag which partially uses some of the down fill directly under your body, where it's crushed and worthless.
Read Dan's posts…they illustrate this perfectly
It's one of those things where you need to try it to understand. I wasn't a believer until I took a 19oz (9 ounces of down fill) quilt down to 22 degrees. A non quilt user may have taken a 20 degree WM ultralite, which weighs 29 ounces. That's a savings of more than a half a lb and I was still plenty warm.
Arguably, a WM summerlite weighs the same as my quilt, and with the same amount of down fill, but unless you can get all that down fill around the continuous baffles, and ontop of your torso, as opposed to under your back, it's not going to have the same level of warmth as my quilt.
Another point thats equally as important. Why do we focus so much about having awesome r-value mats? It's because bags don't insulate your back all that well (again, crushed down). So why not eliminate the back and have your sleeping mat pick up the slack? This is exactly the point with quilts
Lastly, I know you focus on EU ratings a lot, but IMO I feel paying attnetion to the down fill weight will you a better idea of the warmth. The weight number will be far more objective that any rating number a company posts.Oct 20, 2010 at 10:49 pm #1656537
there shouldnt be anyone bringing down hoods for their quilts if thats the case … seems like nunatuk, katabatic and JRB all sell those for a reason ;)
with the down hood, the alpinist weights 24 oz … and the WM ultralite 29 oz
no one should have any issues with drafts in their quilts either if theyre easy to use =P
can you sit up in yr quilt and bivy anchored on a small ledge … and boil water? … somethings are worth the extra 5 oz IMOOct 20, 2010 at 10:52 pm #1656538
I think it boils down to usage and environment. Under most backpacking circumstances (this is a backpacking forum right?) a quilt is adequate. 98% of the people here do not bivy on an edge half way up el capitan
If i was on everest, yeah i'd ditch the quilt too.
I've never needed a down hood when it was above 20 degrees. I also sleep in a tent though.
I dont suffer from drafts. I am invincible :D
But in all honesty, quilts do have a learning curve. But I think its worth it in the end.
Also, a savings of 5 oz is 5 oz…remember the type of people you are talking to here at BPL :)Oct 20, 2010 at 10:57 pm #1656539
except for the fact that you can find top quality down bags at 20-30% of quite a bit of the time … especially marmot, SD, occasionally montbell and rab
well you can find golite quilt sales to be fair … but as seen the 1 season quilt aint much lighter than a WM bag …
ultimately it does come down to affordability vs, weight vs. usage
time for my beauty sleep !!!Oct 20, 2010 at 10:57 pm #1656540
"…quilts arent much ligher than bags once you figure in the weight for head insulation …"
Funny, my personal, current ~30deg (minimum), quilt weighs 13.5oz.
How much does your head gear weigh? :POct 20, 2010 at 11:00 pm #1656541
I agree! it's 2 am….this was fun.
Sorry Jon for destroying your thread. Yes, the new 1 season is accurately rated (looking at the down fill weight). The old golite ultra 20 had enough down to be more of a 30 degree quilt. The difference in weight between the older warmer and lighter golite quilt, and the new 1 season, is attributed to the fact that golite went super green and is using heavier recycled materials in their gear nowOct 21, 2010 at 4:36 am #1656563
@er1kksenLocale: The Western Door
Green materials and etc. have raised weights a bit across the board for golite, but at least the Ultra 20 quilt has gained weight mostly due to additional down. It's quite definitely a solid 20 degree quilt now. Heck, its single layer lofts almost as high as my old 20 degree bag does with both layers on top of each other. Probably the case with the 1 season quilt too.
It's also very, very comfortable. If you can find a good deal on a Golite quilt (and you often can), they're a great value,Oct 21, 2010 at 6:20 am #1656584
The Ultra 20 was a great quilt (mine still is!) and I am sure that the new 3 Season is just as good; personally I like the recycled content of material used in it and don't mind the slight increase in weight for that.
The discussion was very interesting. In my opinion a quilt will always be lighter and warmer when compared to a sleeping bag of the same warmth category, reasoning being that with a sleeping bag you compress the loft underneath and don't gain from it.
I <3 quilts, btw.Oct 21, 2010 at 8:45 am #1656627
"Sorry Jon for destroying your thread."
Not destroyed at all :-) What's the purpose of a forum if not for discussion and debate?
Comparing the numbers (weights, fill, loft and so on) only takes me so far, hence the need to enquire about real world experience of the products, but much of what has been said seems to reinforce what the numbers suggest. It was so much easier in the past, wandering into Black's and trying out a few sleeping bags on the shop floor, but with quilts there are so few options that I'm having to buy from the Internet; and returns policies here in the UK are nowhere near as generous as in the US (Oh, how I miss L.L. Bean and REI!)
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