Winter Pad

[Travis Leanna]

To build on what Eugene said, you can tell Bender to make you a pad with an R-value of 7, for example. Then you can specify the dimensions, and he'll give you a price and approximated weight (which is pretty well estimated).

Or, you can ask how warm of a pad could be made that weighs under 15 ounces, again, for example.

I have two pads. One I had asked for a 60x20x2.5 mummy with an R-value of 5. It came in around 11.5 ounces. The other is the same size, but rectangle, and I specified 6 ounces of down. That pad is 16 ounces.

I can't comment on Exped's durability, but KookaBay offers a few different materials. A 70D and 30D. My pads are the 30D, and while they have held up just fine, the fabric is noticeably thinner than my older Big Agnes AirCore. If you're in some pretty prickly Australian brush, a heavy duty material might make more sense.

I don't mean to hammer you with KookaBay, but I know it can be hard to know about some cottage gear since you can't just head to the store and look at one.

[Ben]

The custom sizing etc. sounds really good. I'd be looking for an R-value that be suitable for temps down to about 15f. It is unlikely that we will encounter temps that cold but it leaves the option there for travelling to colder climates. I don't think I'd take the neo-air out again unless the temp was above 50f, at 37f on wet ground we were quite cold. Can anyone comment on a recommended R-value?

Thanks :)
Benen

[Travis Leanna]

According to Richard Nisley (who has some very detailed and wonderful posts here), you need an R-value of 5 to stay "thermal neutral."

I had a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core with a stated R-value of 4.1 and a rating to 15F. I began to feel the cold with this pad when the mercury dropped to 20. 15F was ok, but it woke me up in the night on several occasions due to being colder than I wanted.

I believe my pad has an R-value of 6. I haven't tested it below 25F yet, but we both are expecting the pad to be just fine at 15F.

Also, there are MANY factors that play into the performance of a sleeping system so it's sometimes hard to nail down a number. I'd shoot for an R-value of at least 6. For a few more ounces, you could wipe away any doubt for temps around 15F and go for a 7 or 8.

[Ben]

They sound a lot lighter than the Exped mats. You you just inflate them like a Neo-Air? I like the thought of purchasing cottage gear. You are correct that it makes it hard because you can't "try before you buy" but the fact that that the money is going to a small business makes up for that =P

[Brad Rogers]

I had my Kooka Bay made to the same specs as a regular Exped Downmat 7 (32oz) and with the included pump sack, it weighs 21oz.

[Greg Mihalik]

Benen,
All down mats require the use of some sort of "inflator" – and Not your lungs. A little condensation won't hurt a NeoAir, but it will kill a down mat.

A Big Agnes "Pump House" is typically used on a KookaBay – a stuffsack with a fabric nozzle that fits over the valve. Then you "fluff" the sack and squeeze the air into the mat. And repeat, and repeat, and …

[James holden]

i still dont see why you cant get by with a good foam mat in addition to yr neo air …

no need to go buy a more expensive down mat IMO … its not like were dealing with winter in the rockies

if yr still cold around freezing with a properly inflated neo air and a good foam mat … the ground insulation isnt yr problem, something else is …

[Rick M]

del

[Ben]

You're right Eric, I will definitely try out a cheap foam mat with the Neo-Air first and see how it goes. I'm using a WM-Ultralite with overfill plus sleeping in thermals, wool socks and a beanie so it had to be the pad. I like that I could use a foam pad to sit on and also in a frame-less pack in the future too.
Before I purchase anything I really like to look at all avenues so that I have no regrets. Although I still occasionally wish I'd purchased something different… but thats life haha.

[James holden]

make sure you have a good meal before sleeping … cold is also a function of hydration and nutrition, 3000+ calories per day

for yr significant other … that 20F deg bag could be a 30F deg bag to her …

here's a link to a 30F marmot hydrogen EN test … its rate 30F for men but 40F for women

comfort ratings are significantly lower for women then men … always take this into account when buying bags for women …

http://marmot.com/products/hydrogen?p=117,72

[Greg Mihalik]

"make sure you have a good meal before sleeping …"

As I have recently learned, the thermic effect of a meal is only good for about 2 hours. After that you are at the mercy of your body's resting metabolic rate.

[Mike M]

I have to agree w/ eric- your neo has a r value of~ 2.5, a nightlight ~ 2.3- this give you a r value close to 5 which should comfortably get you into the teens (probably lower) at very little cost

[carl becker]

I have been researching these issues for a while. There is much good info here and requires a bit of time to sort it all out. In freezing weather it looks like a real R5 is good. I have a short NeoAir and a short Kooka Bay. Bender was great to deal with and I like what I received from him and will use it this weekend but it probably will not be below 35 degrees. I did not want the extra fuss of Down so I asked for a syn fill at 13 ounces rated to R4. I will also use a GG 1/8 mat or thicker ones that I also have. I do the same with the NeoAir in warmer conditions. I have read that a pump is the best method to inflate any mat to keep moisture out fill or no. My foam pads are not very comfortable, very light, take up lots of space and do not deflate, compromises sigh. Combined the better of both worlds.

[Rick M]

del

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