Bear Attack at Red River Gorge in Ky

[Scott Lehr]

Hey man, call before you come to make sure we have some in stock. I sold the last one last Monday and the new order hasn't arrived as of Sunday. I will be at Nolin this weekend but im sure someone else can help you out.

[Dean F.]

Scott,

Can you define "heavily armed"? Is anyone with a hunting rifle "heavily armed" to you? If so, that's kind of misleading phraseology. On the other hand if you saw a redneck with an AR-15, two handguns, and abig ol' Rambo knife strapped to him, I might buy that description…

[Scott Lehr]

It's funny you mention the AR15. One was carrying a AK47 and the other a M14, and both had glocks in holsters on their sides. And not sure of the size of the knife, but one had a boot holster with a rather large knife inside. They reminded me of those two guys from the movie without a paddle, except in heavy clothes since it was the winter. Im a historical fire-arms buff, so i some what know what im talking about. Not an expert by any means though.

[David Olsen]

They ARE heavily armed if they are carrying selective
fire weapons. The only folks hiking in the woods with that
kind of gear are game wardens and soldiers. Do you have a
military training center nearby?

[Ike Mouser]

I assume your talking about burst/auto/semi. Not a law expert, but im sure you can buy perfectly legal ak-47's but they only work in semi auto, like all other legal guns.

[Scott Lehr]

Yes i assume they were semi auto but its still a little suprising to see 2 guys walking around dressed like that. And they were on a trail off of Chimney Top rd, and we all know how that area has been Loved to Death. I passed them on the way going into the wood and quickly discovered their campsite with fire still smoldering and broken bottles and cans all over the place and a few hundered shells on the ground. They were driving a 80's full size blue blazer covered with mud. I have seen the vehicle numerous times but only came face to face with them once.

[Dean F.]

OK, I stand corrected. I guess I'd call that "heavily armed" hunters. Beg your pardon- I'm used to gun-haters describing ANYONE with a gun as "heavily armed" by way of trying to paint them as psychopaths.

I'm kinda tripping up on why a hunter would need a 17-round semiautomatic backup handgun. I assume that hunting with a semi-automatic rifle is legal in Kentucky? If not, report them. Even so, I'd hope there would be a restriction on magazine capacity…

It is legal to own fully-automatic weapons in most of the United States- it's just very expensive and requires mandatory bureaucratic hoops from the ATF. More likely, as Ike said, these were semi-automatic versions such as a Springfield M1A rather than a true M14. Real fully-automatic rifles cost tens of thousands of dollars. This generally restricts them to true collectors, which probably is not inappropriate (speaking of historical firearms, I'd love to handle an Stg44 someday) but occasionally some random gun nut saves up enough to get one.

(While it is legal to own fully-automatic weapons, IIRC it is no longer legal to PRODUCE them or import them except for a few very narrow instances, such a dealer models or for police use. Thus the supply is limited, and prices are high.)

[Ike Mouser]

These are the worst kind of people i've ever heard of. There is nothing more disheartening than going on a wilderness experience to be greeted by bottles/cans/trash everywhere. Personally I wouldn't mind if they disappeared, these kind of people disgust me. Too bad they have more kids than smart people.

[Daniel Fosse]

"The only bad part is Eastern KY, where Red River Gorge is located, is inhabited by typical ky rednecks that you see in the movies. They have lots of guns and shoot most animals that move, so the small bear population will be gone after this weekend."

Seriously?

This is an ignorant statement. In my experience the local people around RRG are very nice. Also, I used to pack a side arm before I went light weight. I have heard plenty of gun fire at RRG (not from me) as near as I can tell it's concentrated around the easy to get to camp sites. Gun fire seems to have decreased significantly over the past few years. The law seems to be cracking down hard at the easy hike camp sites. I'm sure there are trouble-makers in the local population but they don't represent the whole region. Besides, the trails at RRG may be difficult enough to dissuade anyone with a riffle and no backpacking gear from going any more than a mile or two. I never see anyone at RRG other than well prepared backpackers once you get 3-4 miles in. Party campers suck with their noise and garbage and destruction but fortunately they don't hike far.

The bear thing sucks. I always enjoyed being rather care free of bears at RRG. Sounds like a bear bag and some rope are in order now.

[Ike Mouser]

yea i knew it was legal to get autos, you just have to pay the tax, get a license, have a clean record, and buy one, just forgot. I see no need for one though.

[BlackHatGuy]

"Too bad they have more kids than smart people."

That's because smart people have figured out exactly where kids come from…..

[Scott Lehr]

They are fun to shoot for about 15 seconds and then you realize you just spend $50 in ammo. In my opinion its much more fun to take your time, control your breathing, and hit a target 700 yards away with one carefully placed shot, than to fire off several hundred rounds and hope.

[Larry Dyer]

It's funny how people complain about hunting with "assualt" rifles. It's just the natural progression of things really. During WWI the primary weapon of infantry was a bolt action and after the war bolt actions became popular as sporting rifles. WWII saw the rise of the M1 Garand and semi-autos became popular with sportsmen. Now days our men and women returning home are doing the same thing, picking a rifle layout to hunt with that they are familiar with or have combat experience with.

Honestly, the more things change the more things stay the same.

[Scott Lehr]

Ive got a cool Henry Survivor .22LR rifle that weighs under 2 pounds. It just occured to me that it kinda fits in on this site :)

[Ike Mouser]

I know if a bear gets you down your not supposed to spray it anymore, it can increase the aggression. I will be getting bearspray though for sure. ANyone ever had to use bearspray?

I've read alot of reports of attacks lately…im thinking of telling my friend to bring his 45 (if he wants to of course).

[Scott Lehr]

I actually gave my wife a bear spray canister to keep in her car for would-be car jackers!

[Kier Selinsky]

On the topic of hunting with assault rifles… I always thought it was funny how in Ohio, if you're deer hunting, the only kind of gun you can use is a shotgun. But for many other types of game, especially small game like rabbits and squirrels, there are no restrictions on the types of guns you can use. So you're restricted to a 12-gauge for a deer, but for the 1 pound squirrel on your backyard tree, you can plug him with your ak-47

[Scott Lehr]

I agree, i understand why only a 12 gauge slug is allowed for deer, but it really seems like it should be the other way around. People shooting at squirels in trees with calibers that can travel 2-3 miles, or at a deer on the ground with a slug that is lucky to travel 500 yards. Doenst make much sense to me.

[David Olsen]

They don't limit you to rimfire/shotgun for tree squirrels?

That does seem kinda kooky.

==

M14's don't come in semi auto.

While most law enforcement
people carry 223 cal based rifles, the CA
game wardens are issued 308 cal based long guns. I guess
when you may have to shoot an animal, it takes a little
more power than when you shoot people.

The local survival training ground sometimes has soldiers,
with battle and assault rifles, running around. I don't
know if they give them ammo tho. Never hear them shooting
– the area is open to the public for fishing, hiking and
boating. I think they are just supposed to carry them for
the exercise.

However near Sonora pass and in the Sawtooth's north of
Yosemite, you can find military shell casings from the
Marine training center.

==

Back on topic. I still haven't felt the need to carry a
weapon where I hike, but I wouldn't rule it out if I was
traveling in an area that posed some sort of extreme risk.
Bear Spray sounds like the way to go for most circumstances.

[Dean F.]

"M14's don't come in semi auto."

What?!? Have you heard of the Springfield M1A?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=15

It's only one of the most popular semi-automatic rifles currently being manufactured!

It is a semi-automatic M14 just as an AR15 is a semi-automatic M16. Granted, the receiver has one lug reinforced, so they aren't quite interchangeable with a vintage M14 stock, but that's it. And I've heard of at least one company making receivers with mock selector switches on them.

Don't believe everything you read on the internets…

From the description it seems vanishingly unlikely that the two men described were military. About the only crew that I can envision walking around so equipped are special people, and they would have been more professional. And they tend not to choose AK47s for wandering around public places; carrying US equipment for such training events avoids a lot of "there are terrorists wandering around the national forest" calls to 9-1-1.

[Ike Mouser]

i think the may have been "special", meaning the short bus.

[Scott Lehr]

These guys were what i have heard refered to as"Good ole boys". I don't know how good i would consider them after the brief meeting we had. I have heard stories of large marijuana patches in the area guarded by the growers, but never in the middle of winter. On this particular day i was scouting trails in the Hinterlands guide book and this was an unmarked and seldom used trail, so i think they were just as suprised to see me as i was them. So as this whole thred got started, there are some scary locals around there that i wouldn't put past taking out a bear for the bragging rights or just for the heck of it.

[David Olsen]

What?!? Have you heard of the Springfield M1A?

That is an M1A.

An AR15 is not an M16 either.

Next you'll be calling the AR15 an assault rifle too.

And magazines, clips.

[Scott Lehr]

The AR15 can be considered an assault rifle depending on its configuration. There are fully automatic AR15's around but most have been converted illegaly. The televised shoot-out in Hollywood some years ago featured some AR15's used by the bad guys. The AR 15 was included in the now expired "Assault Weapons Ban", but is planned to be included in the next one that o'mighty Obama is trying to put in affect. The type of stock and grip has alot to do with a weapon being considered an "assault" variety. Such as a folding stock or pistol grip.

[David Olsen]

I am just sticking to the original military terms, not made
ups one from politicians. An assault Rifle is not an "Assault Weapon".

If you go down that definition road, then some AirSoft BB guns can become "Assault Weapons" if you do enough machining.

In CA the difference between a rifle and an "Assault Weapon"
can be just a special "bullet button" that needs a tool,
such as the tip of a bullet, to release the magazine, rather
than your finger tip.

My Grandad was a gunsmith and my Dad and Father in law
are collectors and they never let me get away with
mushy definitions about firearms. They liked precise
guns and precise talk.

[Author]

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