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JMT Hike by Boy Scout


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Viewing 17 posts - 51 through 67 (of 67 total)
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  • #1638285
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    Thanks again to all for your useful insights into backpacking with less weight. Along the JMT I saw many examples on how I can improve. Finally I'm seeing the light and will part with my Kelty pack. For Philmont next year I will have a pack that doesn't weigh more than 2 lbs.
    Tomorrow will be my first day as a junior in high school and I tried the last couple of days to put my hike report together. Have a look at my Hike Report to see my journal with several of the photos we took along the trail. The whole experience was awesome and in so many ways beyond words. I will most likely for a while day dream about the JMT in school.

    #1638383
    Jennifer W
    BPL Member

    @tothetrail

    Locale: So. Cal.

    Excellent trip report Daniel. You actually answered a bunch of questions I had about the trail (I'll be starting in a week.) Particularly the best route out of Vermilion and the Bear Creek cut-off trail.

    And actually, now that I see your report on Vermilion and Muir Trail Ranch, I'm wondering if we would be better off just skipping Vermilion and staying at MTR. Were all of the services offered at MTR free of charge if you have a stay booked with them (clothes washing, lemonade, hot tub soaks, etc.?)

    I don't know if it's just my computer, but I can't get the last portion on you trip report to display. It cuts off everything after about day 17.

    #1638396
    Ben Crowell
    Member

    @bcrowell

    Locale: Southern California

    "And actually, now that I see your report on Vermilion and Muir Trail Ranch, I'm wondering if we would be better off just skipping Vermilion and staying at MTR. Were all of the services offered at MTR free of charge if you have a stay booked with them (clothes washing, lemonade, hot tub soaks, etc.?)"
    I'm not so sure how practical it would be to book a stay with MTR for the middle of a JMT trip. They do allow people to make reservations for short stays, but only for dates where they have an opening, and only in the spring and fall. I'm not clear on how Daniel and Manfred set this up, and whether they would have been allowed any flexibility to arrive on a different day.

    The only services MTR offers to backpackers who aren't staying there are resupply, a hiker's box, a very small general store, and water. They do not offer food, laundry, or use of toilets.

    VVR is a much more welcoming place for hikers. They have a cafe, beer, a bigger store, laundry, toilets, showers, and your choice of camping or sleeping in a bunkhouse. The first beer is free to through-hikers. No reservations are required, so you don't have to worry about staying to a fixed itinerary.

    I stopped at both places (VVR for a zero-day break, and MTR for resupply), but if I had it to do over, I'd have skipped MTR entirely.

    MTR is an expensive luxury resort. They charge $155 per night for the adults in the cabins. What I paid at VVR for meals and a bed was 1/3 of that. It's not surprising that you get a lot more luxury when you pay three times more money.

    #1638399
    Ben Crowell
    Member

    @bcrowell

    Locale: Southern California

    Looking at Daniel's trail journal re VVR, I think there are some mistakes in it, and some other things where my subjective impressions don't agree at all with his.

    What I was charged for the ferry was exactly what was posted ($18 round trip). I think Daniel and Manfred may have miscommunicated with the owner about what the $33 charge was actually for.

    Re the first night being free, I have never heard any statement from VVR that this was supposed to be the case. Most people only stay there for one night, so I can't see how they could possibly not charge for the first night. If the tent cabin fills up, you're paying to camp on their land. If you don't want to camp on their land, you don't have to; I don't think it's more than a 5-minute walk to public land.

    Obviously there is not going to be free beer for high school students. I got a free beer when I visited. There was a big cooler, and everyone took their first beer out of it.

    I guess VVR could be a "money sink" if you start a tab and don't watch what you're paying for. I think my total bill was $55, including ferry, dinner, a night's sleep in the tent cabin, and breakfast. I would consider that extremely cheap. I thought the service at VVR was very good and friendly.

    It's possible that some of our wildly differing impressions came from the fact that Daniel and Manfred went at the very peak of the JMT season, so the staff at VVR were probably insanely busy, and the place was probably extremely crowded.

    #1638400
    Frank Deland
    Member

    @rambler

    Locale: On the AT in VA

    I approached VVR from Goodale Pass and Trail. Enjoyable hike. I stopped only to get a resupply, ship dirty laundry and used maps, etc. home, and phone home.
    At the suggestion of the owner, I hiked out via Bear Creek. That was an easy, enjoyable hike once I reached the creek. Finding the trailhead, however was difficult. It is not on the Harrison JMT maps.
    It is a 3 mile road walk…try to hitch. It climbs steeply, then suddenly turns back away from the JMT and drops down into a valley before reaching the creek. I was almost convinced I was going the wrong way.
    Once along the creek, the climb back to the JMT is gradual most of the way and the creek is beautiful. Many locals fish there, and if I were a trout, I would live there. There is a nice ledge to camp near with water close by and only tenths of a mile before joining the JMT.
    It was nice having only to carry a small amount of food before the major re-supply at MTR.
    If I were going again, I would try to catch the boat.

    PS Pack animals do not use the Bear Creek Trail.

    #1638406
    Jennifer W
    BPL Member

    @tothetrail

    Locale: So. Cal.

    "I'm not so sure how practical it would be to book a stay with MTR for the middle of a JMT trip. They do allow people to make reservations for short stays, but only for dates where they have an opening. That would mean you'd be out of luck if you showed up a day late or a day early."

    Thanks for the insight Ben. I know that it would be problematic if we didn't arrive as scheduled. They do have an opening for the day we "plan" to be there.

    In reading trip reports, it sounds like it's tough to leave VVR for less than $150. The short stay at MTR is $140 (plus the higher $50 resupply fee) and includes all the meals. I'm just not sure if that includes all the other services. If it does, since it takes less time to get to and from MTR from the trail, and you're not constrained by ferry schedules, it might be easier.

    Decisions, decisions.

    #1638419
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    Hi Jennifer,

    My dad booked the MTR stay based on my day-by-day hiking plan in advance without telling me. When we were hiking faster as expected he suggested the trip to VVR to slow us down so we would arrive at MTR on the right day. Sneaky!
    The fee for MTR was $140 and it was all inclusive – hot tub soaks, washing clothes, dinner, breakfast, sack lunch, etc. My impression at VVR was that no one walked away with a bill less than $150, when they paid for ferry, washing clothes, taking a shower, eating three meals, etc.
    There were many people very happy with VVR. But we found their service poor and were especially unhappy about their stubborness to charge us $11 for the one-way ferry although their sign said $10. It didn't seem very ethical. If I were 10 years older and the waitress would have hit on me, I might even have enjoyed that too. But as it was, I didn't like to get bad service, just because there were other men in the "right" age class around who got all her attention.
    At MTR everyone was treated with equal respect. Every staff member knew every guest's name and I felt very welcome. On both days we were there, they had openings for short-stays. I can't say how often that happens and whether you can "risk" to just show up. On 8/3 and 8/4 it would have worked. If you have a set hiking plan, then I would just book it in advance.

    Good luck with your hike!

    Daniel

    #1638420
    Jennifer W
    BPL Member

    @tothetrail

    Locale: So. Cal.

    Ben, there were three of them and the ferry charge for a one-way trip was raised to $11. The posted price was $10.

    I agree about starting a tab and not paying attention to the charges. When I figured out what my approximate tab would be, it came to about $50, but I'm not sure how much phone or internet service might be since we will need to communicate with the rest of our party meeting us at the Baxter Pass trail. I can't figure out what else most people are buying to rack up such a high bill.

    #1638427
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    Hi Ben,

    There are no mistakes in my description. And there was absolutely no miscommunication between my dad and the owner about $10 vs. $11 for the one-way ferry. They had a lengthy discussion about "Truth in advertising" and "Consumer rights". The owner made it clear who sets the price and makes the rules there and what my dad has to do to get his credit card back — sign here. That is not the treatment I like to get. Many of the people we met during the hike were extremly happy with VVR — especially after having 5 and more beers. At MTR we didn't see any beer. There was endless water, lemonade and ice tea available, but no alcohol was served with dinner. For me — a 15 year old boy who can't yet drink alcohol — the atmosphere at MTR was so much more relaxing. VVR had very good food and they gave me a free coke (instead of the beer), which I enjoyed tremendously. I just didn't like the atmosphere as much, didn't like the dark and dirty shower/restroom combination I had to pay $6 for, didn't like the treatment I received as a boy compared to beer drinking adults. So my personal choice between VVR and MTR is clear. I guess it all comes down to personal preferences.

    Daniel

    #1638431
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    Hi Jennifer,

    Phone/Internet at VVR was $2 per minute (they actually added $2 to our credit card bill, for running the card through the machine and thus making a call to verify the card). At MTR they offer thru hikers to use email (no facebook or other internet sites with pictures) for $10/15 minutes. For guests the internet usage was free. So just looking for 30 minutes at the subject lines of all the emails that had piled up at VVR is $60.

    Daniel

    #1638432
    Jennifer W
    BPL Member

    @tothetrail

    Locale: So. Cal.

    Thanks Daniel. That's exactly what I was trying to find.

    Nice, I like that sneaky move by your dad!

    I was able to view the rest of your report in Explorer. Firefox was cutting off a portion.

    Again, thanks for the thorough and detailed trip report.

    Ben, Frank, thanks for the tips. The combination of all these little gems of details are so helpful.

    #1638446
    Scott Bentz
    BPL Member

    @scottbentz

    Locale: Southern California

    Daniel,

    Nice job on finishing the JMT. I took my son last year. He was 17 at the time. I wish I had done it when I was a teenager since last year was my first thru hike. I plan on doing it again and again.

    As for VVR and MTR, I suppose you like MTR better because you had first class treatment. A bed, hot tub, clothes washed, food and lemonade. Most of us just stop off long enough to pick up a delivery that we paid $50.00 for.

    I would stay at VVR next time and not got to MTR and just carry the extra 1.5 days of food from VVR. We were on a 13 day schedule. I don't like having to be tied to a specific date on that type of hike since so many variables can take you off your schedule.

    We will be heading up and over Forester Pass next week. This time from the south to north.

    Scott

    #1638477
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    Scott,

    I'm glad I did this as a teenager. I'm sure my dad would have loved to do this earlier too. All this hiking, camping and backpacking came late in his life due to the Boys Scout activities I'm involved in. Your son and you must have had an incredible time. Being on the JMT with your dad is just a very special thing. I assume being on the JMT with your son is equally special.
    I can totally understand that people prefer the flexibility of being able to show up at VVR at any time vs. the rigidity of being at a fixed date at MTR. My hiking plan didn't plan for a stay at either one and I needed to re-supply at MTR, because we would not have been able to stuff the extra days of food needed from VVR into our bear canisters at our speed of 10 miles a day. Now that I stayed for a day at each one I have a clear preference that is mainly based on the respect I got. As a child who is not carrying the credit card I get a special perspective at service businesses. The differences between the two were enormous. Secondly I base my opinion on value for money. If I take the same services at VVR that I get at MTR I have to pay the same or even more money. Would I have bought 10 lemonades from the store at VVR as I took from MTR? Most likely not, but I saw lots of adults at VVR getting 10 beers during the evening. Would I have checked my email for 30 minutes at VVR for $60? Again I saw many people do excactly that. The good thing about VVR is that you have the choice to use a service (and pay for it). So you can take the ferry (and back) for $18, eat dinner for $20 and eat breakfast for $15 and restrict your bill to $53. Add in $6 for the shower and $6 for the washer and it is $65. Still less than half of the price for MTR. I clearly see why people choose VVR over MTR. If it weren't for the very unprofessional behavior of some of their staff, I would most likely think differently, but the contrast between the two places was very,very big. Respect and honesty really goes a long way in that regard.

    Daniel

    #1643685
    Daniel Kopisch
    Member

    @eagle

    Locale: Menlo Park

    I'm finally done with uploading over 500 photos. You can go to my website at

    http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/photosofjmthike.htm

    On that page you will find a table with 20 links (one for each day). Each link brings you to a page with the track of that day and geotagged photos, so you can see where they were taken.

    Daniel

    #1643709
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Just read your write up — all 20 days! Congrats on completing your trip — and thanks for sharing!!

    Papa Manfred ought to be proud! Curious, did papa switch to UL gear? :)

    #1643734
    Manfred
    BPL Member

    @orienteering

    Hi Ben,

    Proud "Papa" Manfred here :) It was an incredible experience for me to go with Daniel and his twin brother on the John Muir Trail. Chaning to ultra light gear is a journey for me, I just started on. My pack for our three week hike was — thanks to all the input from this forum — over 10 lbs lighter than my pack used to be on weekend trips with the Boy Scouts. But at 27 lbs for my pack weight I'm still a long way away from ULTRA light. Next summer I'm going with our troop to Philmont and I hope I can set a good example to the scouts with a pack weight of under 20 lbs. My first step will be to get a new pack. That will immediately drop my pack weight by roughly 3 lbs. There are gadgets like GPS and camera that I could drop, because I don't need them out there, but I really like to have them. We will see how the next 10 months of preparation for Philmont will impact my thoughts about how light I want to go.

    Best Regards,

    Manfred

    #1643742
    Scott Bentz
    BPL Member

    @scottbentz

    Locale: Southern California

    Manfred,

    Make sure you read up on all of the great Philmont information at the Scouting and Philmont Forum. We took a troop there a few years ago and this site was extremely helpful. As a troop we were all lightweight, some more than others. The heaviest pack weight leaving camp with 4 days of heavy Philmont food was 28 lbs. Most of us were at 22 or less full.

    Your son's trip report was one of the best I've seen.

    Scott

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