Water filter comparisons

[paul johnson]

Katie,

First off, Anthrax is NOT a virus. Please read my prev. post in this Thread. Such erroneous info may provide some insight into how false info about MIOX comes about. I’m thinking now that EinsteinX may possibly be correctly reporting info given to him by another MIOX representative(???).

Also, a 20min kill at 4x the dosage does not necessarily translate into a linear relationship for the normal dosing. In fact, it’s possible that it may not have any affect on the endospores at all. Now, i don’t think that this (i.e., no effect) would be the case, but without proper testing one simply can’t be sure.

Also, 6 log (one in a million) is a number that i would prefer to see. A billion spores might not be that unusual and a 4 log reduction would leave 100,000 – enough for many pathogens to cause an infection (i don’t know a precise load for B. anthracis, but i would wager that something less than 100k would certainly cause one).

[Rob Zwissler]

Just a few words on the Katadyn Mini – I called Katadyn tech support to clear up a couple questions on the Mini… in short, the tech rep. suggested the Mini is not suitable for backpacking; and is intended for filtering fresh water, ie “a trip to mexico”. She said filtering water in the back country, even clear water, will clog the small silver impregnated ceramic element quickly. In that environment, cleaning would be required about once per liter (!!!), and suggested that the reason some folks are breaking the handles off minis is because the filter gets clogged, and people overpower it. The Hiker (Pro) weigs 3 oz more, and the Glass Fiber / activated carbon core filter requires far less frequent cleaning when used outside.

The activated carbon core Mini filter is no longer being made.

Rob

[paul johnson]

Rob, good info. thanks for posting. sounds like a 5micron – to 20 micron pre-filter might be in order for use with the Mini? Wonder how much this would help with the clogging?

[Dale Wambaugh]

At 30z difference, the Hiker Pro does make more sense.

This isn’t the first time marketing and tech support have disagreed on a product– Katadyn’s listing for the mini reads:

*Small size fits into coat pocket or waist pack
*Ideal for travel and day hiking

The Hiker Pro is a lot less money too– upwards of $40 less than the mini.

[Dale Wambaugh]

If I were travelling in anthrax country, I would boil it all. A good rolling boil does a great job of blasting critters– just takes more time and fuel.

I often boil another pot of water in the evening and let it cool overnight to pour into my Platypus. I can boil more in the morning for coffee and oatmeal and add any leftovers to the cold stuff before taking off. On a short hike, I can get in and back out without having to treat any water. On a longer jaunt, treating some with AM and boiling some works fine. I can see where thru-hikers really need to conserve fuel, but on an overnight or long weekend, it’s pretty easy.

[Einstein X]

Hi Ms(r) Bolek,

That 8 hour settl time data came from of the importer of MSR products. After hammering him with tough question he did admit however that he couldn’t awnser all my questions and if i send him an email he’d forward it to MIOX.

So far i haven’t send that email yet. Mainly due to a change in shops and no longer sellinh MIOX product, which BTW i do think of as a good product.

Eins

[paul johnson]

Dale, just keep in mnd that spore forming bacteria will not be sufficiently reduced in number by even a 1-2minute boil. Five minutes is recommended for complete erradication. Normally, the backcountry hiker does NOT expect to encounter these bugs. Also, some of the toxins produced by some of these spore formers are even more resistant to heat, requiring up to 10 minutes of boiling to destroy the toxins. Again, it is very unlikely that the backcountry hiker will encounter high concentrations of these toxins.

[Nick Truax]

spam gone with the wind

[BlackHatGuy]

FWIW, why not make it easier on the moderators — who do the moderating in their spare time for free — and instead of just posting SPAM where they'd have to come across it, click on the red flag on the top right of the offending post, which will alert the moderators to the specific post.

We help the moderators, we help ourselves.

Doug

[Nick Truax]

Didn't even realize that the spam flag was there. Thanks for the heads up.

Learn something new every day.

[Travis Leanna]

I'm very familiar with that red flag. I press that button on every one of Doug's posts. ; )

[Sam Haraldson]

Yes, please use the "Report Forum Post" link rather than simply posting "Spam" to the forum. I read a lot of the forums but by no means all of it so I can miss these posts. When the report button is hit the forum moderators receive email and we immediately determine if the issue needs to be dealt with.

[Dean F.]

Well, heck, Dale, if you're considering gravity filters I have to say something that I've said many times before:

I don't understand why more people aren't using Sawyer filters.

Once I tried them I knew I was never going back. They use a microtubule technology similar to dialysis kidneys (and, IIRC, the MSR Hyperflow.) You can buy or rig a gravity filter setup, or a sip-from-the-filter-in-a-bottle setup, etc. The newer models have quick-detach adapters so it is easy to switch the filter between setups. They provide excellent reductions on protozoans, bacteria, and viruses. In fact there are two versions, and the more fine filter qualifies as a water purifier (rather than a mere water filter) by federal standards. They have a million-gallon guarantee (it used to be a lifetime guarantee, but they figured they needed to just pick a number), so the filters don't really go bad unless damaged or frozen. It certainly could last a lifetime. They are brutally simple, and thus durable.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with Sawyer. Just sayin'.

As I mentioned the HyperFlow uses the same basic technology, I think. But when I was shopping around a couple of years ago it was getting really bad reviews. They may have fixed the problems by now, but it had durability issues.

–BREAK–

I agree, the MIOX has none of the advantages of other chemical water treatments, all of the disadvantages of other chemical water treatments, invents at least one disadvantage of its own (primarily the need for batteries and for salt refills), and weighs as much as some filters. I've never been a fan. The one situation where it probably excels is in treating very large volumes of water when used as the sole purification device for a large group.

–BREAK—

What was spam? I hope not Katie. After all her very first sentence gives the disclaimer that she is a MIOX employee. I don't think that her post was out of line, per se.

–BREAK–

I was getting ready to jump all over the filters-vs-chemical comments, but then saw that Paul covered it in detail.

Heck, if anything viruses are the WEAK point of filters- many don't do a good job against particles that small. Viruses are where chemical treatments EXCEL.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Katie

We welcome your contribution to the Forum. You have clearly stated your affiliation up front and have then made a good factual contribution. This is appreciated.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking light

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