Relative heat of combustion: Alcohol and Olive oil

[Rog Tallbloke]

Weight for weight, at 9564.6cal/g, olive oil has around 2.7 times the heat of combustion of alcohol.

Given that one of the major complaints about alcohol as a fuel for UL backpacking is the amount you have to carry to get the heat to eat, and olive oil is good to eat too, it's worth investigating it as a stove fuel.

I've made a prototype.

:-)

[Rog Tallbloke]

Ok, found the camera.

It's just a rough prototype, but works fine. Weighs 3/4oz.

Uses 10g alcohol to bring the water up to the boil and pre-heat the 10g olive oil in the centre pod which then takes over to maintain a simmer for 15 mins.

[Jan Rezac]

Good idea to combine the fuels! Does it produce less soot that burning the oil alone? (I've experimented with beeswax stove some years ago and it produced too much soot to be usable.)

Could you post some pictures of the stove in action?

[al b]

Is this an april fool?

[Greg Mihalik]

Rog doesn't fool around when it comes to heat – around the globe, in the tent, or under a stove.

[Fred eric]

it was a 5 days trip, in a national park , fire stove accepted but open fire forbidden.
my wife lost our bushbuddy the first day.
as it was winter i had some olive oil to add calories to our meals, it ended as combustible in a candle lantern cup with scraps of clothes as wick :

problem in winter is you need to get the bottle of oil in your clothes first to warm it so you can poor it and light it.

[JM Addleman]

Is it sooty? I would think it would be sooty. Great idea!

[Rog Tallbloke]

Fred, good improvisation.

John and Jan, not very sooty because the alcohol gets the oil nice and hot before it takes over the simmering. It does blacken the pot, and is a bit stinky for vestibule cooking though.

Fine for calm nights outdoors, and saves a bit of fuel weight, or ekes out your alcohol supply.

I'll do a burn and post a couple of pics…

[Rog Tallbloke]

OK, it's busy making our after dinner coffee:

Now running oil only, maintaining a simmer just under a full boil. Perfect for coffee :-):

The blue edging round the flame is a camera artifact.
There is no visible smoke.

The stove just before I snuffed it out. Coffee's done.

Oops, I spilt some alcohol in it. :-)

[. .]

@ Rog – that's awesome. I've been wanting to play around with this and I'm glad to see there are others also. I am also planning on trying some biodiesel in my XGK, but that for another time.

In researching this before, one thing I noted was that when using olive oil as a fuel, use the most refined oil that you can find for the cleanest, most efficient burn (Not Extra Virgin). A bummer for the foodie in me, but the compromise for multi-use is worth it.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Aaron, that's interesting. I always assumed extra virgin would be as pure as it came. Thanks for the tip, I'll investigate.

[Jim Colten]

use the most refined oil that you can find for the cleanest, most efficient burn (Not Extra Virgin). A bummer for the foodie in me, but the compromise for multi-use is worth it.

OK … I ration myself to biting my tongue at least 9 times for every time I respond to this … I think I'm overdue, he-he.

The described practice is most definitely NOT multi-use. Multi-use is the same pound/ounce/gram of carry weight delivering more than one function/benefit. It is more or less impossible for consumables to be multi-use … after consuming an ounce of olive oil for one purpose it is no longer available for any use to fulfill any other purpose.

So, you may want to call it multi-purpose and you may find benefit in multi-purpose items but they have little or no pack weight reduction benefit (which is what multi-use is all about)

[Rog Tallbloke]

Jim: Unless you carry a bit less alcohol safe in the knowledge you can use some of your cooking supplies in a pinch?

[. .]

@Jim, thank you for the terminology clarification. I think I have been using the terms interchangeably and obviously a bit loosely.

"It is more or less impossible for consumables to be multi-use … after consuming an ounce of olive oil for one purpose it is no longer available for any use to fulfill any other purpose."

But haven't you heard of composting? :)

My way of using multi-use was rather strict, in the sense that it has two or more potential uses. Alcohol is multi-use, so is leukotape and Duct-tape, but they are arguably consumables. I am willing to concede the term multi-purpose, however as superior, if that is the etymological consensus here.

To be proper, Rog did post in MYOG, although it's doubtful that he pressed the olives himself :)

I have a hurricane lamp that I have been wanting to try with olive oil. I'll post after the first burn.

[Jim Colten]

@Rog: That does not meet my own personal backpacking style (if I pack a food I'll want to eat it) but that surely is an HYOH thing so I can concede it as a potential weight saver.

@Aaron: Composting, eh? Now that you mention it, swallowed olive oil might well be multi-use … 1) flavor/energy 2)stool softener. That's as far as I'm willing to take that particular line of thought:-)

[Rog Tallbloke]

Jim:

Planning food for our trips is often compromised by airport limitations on liquids and tight pack room (we fly handbaggage only). I hate wasting what I buy, so if the only bottle of olive oil available is bigger than we are going to use in our food, using some as fuel is an option. The quality of alcohol available in small village stores in Spain (for example) is variable too, so a backup fuel is useful.

I made the stove with my small Gerber knife to cut the beer can, a tent peg to pierce the jet holes, two tealight cups pressed together for the oil reservoir, a needle to pierce out the wick hole and air holes, and a 2g piece of wick. I'll be giving pack room to some wick on our trips from now on, as the proper stuff works a lot more efficiently than Fred's torn strips of cloth.

I agree we all hike differently, I'm just offering an idea for an emergency stove that's easy to make in the field if yours gets stepped on, lost, or you're running out of fuel.

[Andrew Dolman]

Hi Rog

How do you get on flying hand luggage only? I've just booked flights to Scotland and decided to pay for hold luggage because I can't imagine tent pegs and walking poles getting through security these days.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Hi Andrew,
I did get some Ti stakes confiscated a couple of years ago, the security guy told me he would have let them through if the ends had been cut flat rather then pointed, and I've been OK with that advice since.

I use a hollow carbon fibre golf club shaft with corks glued on as walking pole/tent pole and have got away with that so far. I suggest taking the pole tips off and packing them seperately. They are not sharp as such, and detached from the poles look pretty harmless.

I don't know how zealous German outbound security is though, so take cheap pegs and poles!

[Kevin Beeden]

> I can't imagine tent pegs and walking poles getting through security these days.

Flew EasyJet to and from Geneva last week with my mum. She had two walking poles as cabin luggage. No queries at either airport. Just hobble a bit when you get to check-in…

YMMV…

[EndoftheTrail]

If your pack qualifies for carry on size and weight wise, then you should carry it on. Imagine losing a pack and ruining your entire trip!

So what to do with hiking poles, blades, and stakes? Easy! Pack them in a postal tube (available in Wally World as well as P.O.'s) and check it. And if this gets lost, it would be more of an annoyance than actual show stopper.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Ben, yes, but.

Ryanair are famous for charging silly money to check luggage. £35 for one item. This is 4 times what we paid for the flight to Oslo!

Kevin, here are 'da roolz'

Pointed/edged weapons and sharp objects

The following is not allowed in your hand baggage.

Including but not limited to:

* axes and hatchets
* arrows and darts
* crampons
* harpoons and spears
* ice axes and ice picks
* ice skates
* lockable or flick knives with blades of any length
* knives, including ceremonial knives, made of metal or any other material strong enough to be used as a potential weapon
* meat cleavers
* machetes
* open razors and blades (excluding safety or disposable razors with blades enclosed in cartridge)
* sabres, swords and swordsticks
* scalpels
* scissors with blades more than 3cm in length
* ski and walking/hiking poles
# throwing stars
# tradesman's tools that have the potential to be used as a pointed or edged weapons, including drills and drill bits, box cutters, utility knives, all saws, screwdrivers, crowbars, hammers, pliers, wrenches/spanners, blow torches

Which is a shame, because normally I don't travel without my harpoon and meat cleaver.

[EndoftheTrail]

Rog:

Then what do you do about hiking poles and blades? Leave them at home (which is an option)?

[Bob Gross]

Put 'em in checked baggage and pay the price.

–B.G.–

[Rog Tallbloke]

Ben: I'm not a regular hiking pole user. If I need a third leg for crossing a torrent or traversing a steep slope I just jam my carbon fibre golf club tent pole sections together and use that. It's stronger than any hiking pole I've seen and a lot lighter too. For a blade I just buy a cheap fruit knife from a supermarket once I reach the first town after landing at the airport. Then I give it away to someone before I leave again.

Bob: On our next trip we are taking 3 flights in two weeks: London-Oslo, Oslo-Wroclaw, Krakow-Leeds. Total cost for the two of us including airport axes is less than £100. Checking anything into the holds would be the same again. We can't afford that. Anyway, sneaking small sundries like needles and emergency fuel tablets through is all part of the fun for us.

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