Hammock vs. Tarp/ Bivy vs. Tarptent

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[Robert Blean]

Cuben Hammock Thread

Bill, are you sure the URL is correct? It refers to itself.

[Angela Zukowski]

waking up multiple times a night is the bane of my existence.

however for men this can be a much easier issue – even in a hammock!

[Angela Zukowski]

I just realized that the weight for my contrail plus neoair plus sleeping bag is the SAME as the hammock set up!

AWESOME.

Now I just have to go over the math again to make sure I didn't mess up!

[Andrew King]

Experience will vary with the individual. But with that said, I have also read many accounts of people who thought their backcountry days were over due to back issues, and hammocking was their salvation. Like most things, there is a learning curve on how to use them. There are techniques for properly hanging them to get the correct sag angle, and also better ways to lie in them. Don't let your first attempt drive you to a potentially incorrect conclusion. I've been hanging for several years now and initially it took me a few times to get it right. There are also a lot of different hammock styles and tradeoffs you can make.

This is a very active field right now, and innovation is happening at a rapid pace. The improvements in suspension techniques alone have been particularly exciting over the past year, and these make hanging and adjusting a hammock very easy for almost no weight penalty. The newness of the gear and techniques tend to put people off a little bit at first. There are plenty of knowledgable and helpful people both here and over at Hammock Forums that can answer questions on how to get started.

[Ike Mouser]

@andrew

hammocking was my salvation, thats probably why im so adamant about it. Before i discovered it, i gave up backpacking because of spondylolisthesis. Now i wakup without an ache. After walking all day and being forced to sleep on the hard ground, i would toss and turn all night trying to get comfortable, wasting energy, and waking up tired the next day and in pain. Now when i wakeup, im in the exact same position(fetal) as when i fell asleep.

Its true that the innovation is daunting. But thats what makes HF so great. Once you empower yourself, learn new knots, learn how to sew an uq, tq, whoppie slings, utility constrictor ropes, learn differntial baffles, how to make prussic knots on a ridgeline, the list goes on, you really gain a confidence in your ability to make gear and be successful in the outdoors.

[Ike Mouser]

correction guys, the ul hammock is not called camp nano(thats a carabiner, lol, don't know how my brain made that connection, but anyway), it is called the GRAND TRUNK, it is 7oz. with a cuben tarp, you could be looking at a sub 1lb shelter. But i hear its mighty thin, dunno though, never tried it.

[BRIAN BOLIN]

TomD I understand where your coming from. For you the pressure of the flat surface feels good against your back. But with the hammock there are no pressure points what so ever. This is great for someone with a bad back. Sleeping at an angle you are perfectly level, not bent like a banana. I'm going to try to find the avatar pic over at Hammock forums of a fella that has a xray of his back and post it here. Its incredible.I'll never complain about 2 slipped/bulging disks to this man.

[Andrew King]

Here's a photo from a trip I took last year in the Sycamore Canyon Wilderness that shows what is possible with hammock camping regarding site selection. Good luck to the ground campers here!

And one more photo showing a group of us camping out in a dry stream bed at Parson Spring on a different trip.

[BRIAN BOLIN]

OH I did discover something with the first time winter hiking with a hammock and with women in the group. Changing your clothes! LOL I had to be a contortionist in my hammock to get changed and out of my snow wet clothes.

Here is Tbacks Avatar:(small) but you get the idea:

[Andrew King]

Actually, my experience changing clothes in a hammock is quite good. I use the hammock like a chair and have a very easy time changing out of my clothes underneath a tarp, if privacy is required, compared to doing the same thing crawling inside of an UL style tent, or sitting on the ground underneath a tarp. Even more so if it's raining outside. Here's a picture of me sitting on my hammock enjoying the living space under the tarp.

BTW, I already posted on another thread about my Nano 7, but since we are talking about it here, I'll cover it again. I've taken my Nano 7 out several times and it's worked well for me. A little smaller than I'd like compared to other hammocks, but still comfortable enough. It's my go-to hammock for SUL long mileage hiking adventures. After a retrofit to amsteel whoopie slings and polyester tree straps for suspension, it weighs in around 8 oz total. I also use an MLD cuben hex hammock tarp that weighs 6.4 oz that gives me plenty of coverage, and a 2/3 length down underquilt for bottom side warmth that weighs 12.5 oz. That's a pretty light setup for this kind of comfort. I posted a picture of this setup on another thread.

[te – wa]

1) changing clothes is easy as in a UL tent. andy's photo proves the headroom isnt an issue. for privacy, dont be so damm conservative. nobody's going to laugh at you in your underwear, even if thats what happens in that one dream when youre at school…
2) thanks guys for sharing some great photos – doesnt hurt that i see my products in use, and others see them too! :)
3) i am pretty sure that for me, there is not a ground pad out there, or one that will ever be invented, that is as comfortable as a warbonnet blackbird/UQ combo. it just cannot be done.

[Ike Mouser]

i carry a gaterade bottle i pee in, when im done just put the lid on, go back to sleep. Works great in a hammock. Makes peeing no big dea at all.

Also in a hammock liek the blackbird, there is a LARGE gear shelf. A pocket in the fabric that i can stuff my thermawrap, balaclava, water filter, 2 pairs of gloves, clean socks for the morning, food, clothes for the next day, hygiene bag and more into. So access to gear is not an issue with this hammock at all. If you don't have a hammock like that, you can make a bag, strap a small bag onto your hammock ridgeline(if your hammock has one) and put your gear there. There is no reason you can't have access to your stuff in a hammock as well.

[Angela Zukowski]

Ahem.

Not if you are female!

Peeing in a bottle while laying down… not gonna run the risk of that. I just don't see it ending well. And I refuse to carry any sort of urination aid device marketed towards women!

And yeah, I have a small gear bag attached to my hammock – but I just put essentials like my headlamp in it, not everything. So that is why I mentioned that. I'm not exactly going to be able to make myself a pot of tea while reclining in my hammock! (although I could get up, grab the stove, sit back in my hammock and relax under the tarp while doing so!)

[Eddy Walker]

a lot easier to get up and go than to have to deal with a bottle to pee in. If it is raining just go to the edge of the tarp and the rain will wash it away.

[Ike Mouser]

i a do "the lean", i scoot as far toward the zipper on my bb, put my weight on it so im pointing more toward the ground and go. works great too. Never got anything wet with either bottle the "the lean". You can also, once you get to the zipper, use a hiking stick/trail stick to push off the ground, turning you to where your almost facing staight down, and go that way. lol

[Bill Fornshell]

Cuben Hammock Thread

Bill, are you sure the URL is correct? It refers to itself.

Thanks, I fixed it.

Here it is again:

Cuben Hammock Thread

[BRIAN BOLIN]

It was mostly an issue changing at 36 degree angle in the snow. Yes its nice to hang mostly anywhere,but take getting changed and staying dry into consideration. Hang somewhere flat when in snow lol.
Everyone loves the whoopy slings, but I still love using my 2 sling slap micros from ENOs. The pair only weighs 4.5 oz and are superfast to attach.

My set up for the winter hike:

Hennessey UL Explorer modified with zipper setup#2 by HQ
Jacks r better – Winter Nest
UL equinox 10 x 12 tarp
West Mount megalight long
Golite 3×7 silnyl ground tarp ( which didn't help me a lick on the angle I was hung at)

[Ike Mouser]

My winter setup:

Jrb no sniv tq
jrb no sniv uq
blackbird
light pad
oes spinn tarp
whoppie slings
continuous prussic ridgeline on tarp
prussic guylines with spliced fixed eyes

[Lori P]

"How light, Lori? Brand, model, weight — please?"

This is a meaningless question. Because everyone has a different set of needs – if yours is to be the lightest possible, my gear will not work for you at all.

Note isaac's winter list – that is sooooooooo not what I would have. That's my three season setup. Below 25F or so, I'm gonna be adding to that list of isaac's – that no sniv uq is a three season quilt, mine will be a 0 degree 3/4 quilt that weighs the same as a full length quilt, plus the pad, plus the vapor barrier liner for the uq, plus my down jacket, plus expedition weight base layer…

My gear (hammock, tarp, quilt, pad) is going to weigh 48-70 oz every time depending on where I am going and what I imagine the chances of going to ground might be. Because I am going to be ultralight in every single thing OTHER than the sleeping gear, to keep the weight tolerable. In that aspect I am as comfort driven as they come, and being a cold sleeper on top of it doesn't help.

So no, I am not ulralight – I still have a Mariposa Plus instead of one of its smaller siblings. I can get a base weight under 18 lbs if I pull out the hammock and just use the tarp, neoair, and quilt – but since that means sleep deprivation I generally don't unless there's no way to use a hammock. I wake up with sore hips most of the time when I sleep on the ground. The Neo Air has been a significant improvement in that aspect, but it's still not letting me sleep more than a couple hours (I have been experimenting with ground sleeping again to sort out how I may be able to manage some specific non-hammock trips – it's been barely tolerable).

I have a trail buddy who took a simple ENO, threw in his sleeping bag, and was comfy all night despite temps in the high 30s. Doesn't care about bugs, wasn't cold on the bottom despite compressed insulation. I can't do that. Maybe you can. Lots of people do. It all depends.

Here is a spreadsheet with pages of quilts, hammocks and tarps – weights and dimensions are all listed. One of the hammock forums folks put it together.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pVGC6SYpN7Wa9NJHrtlPjHA&hl=en

[Ike Mouser]

lori, what is your vapor barrier liner for your underquild made of, and how does it attach to your uq?

[BRIAN BOLIN]

Thanks for the spreadsheet.

[Lori P]

Isaac – it's the mylar snap in that comes with the yeti. He uses small snaps to keep it in place. I haven't used it yet, I don't like vapor barriers generally.

[te – wa]

just an example, my list shows a way to keep things light. i am and have been (as a convert) always under the 10lb ul status bar, and hope to keep it that way. this set up pro'lly wouldnt work for some, or even most, but for me its a part of a sub 10 lb pack that im never going to part with. i dont care if a pad that is 6" thick and only weighs 12oz comes out someday, which is likely never to happen, but it would be too hard to leave the Dark Side. Besides, i have a vested interest. :P

WBBB 1.1 single w/ whoopies and straps 21oz even
big, 11×10' winter tarp and stakes 19oz even
2 season, 32° top quilt 12.6oz
3 season, sub 30° under quilt 13oz
leg pad 3.1oz

roughly 4lbs, 5oz. swap the BB for my GT ul @ 12.4oz, and im under 4lbs at 3lbs, 12oz.
im trying to figure out how anyone can use a contrail, a neoair, and a sleeping bag (wm highlite?) for 54.5oz and save much over this (5.5oz, respectively). hence, another reason im a convert. if im given a choice of super versatility and unmatched comfort and a difference of 5-6oz, i'll do it. and these specs include a huge tarp, maybe twice the size of a contrail, and plenty of good storm protection if needed.

outside of weight comparisons as an example, it can also be clearly mentioned that the versatility of my hammock is high..
1)the best camp chair in the world, period
2)can be used as a ground bivy
3)pad is pack frame and sit pad for Murmur, Jam, and Comet
4)tarp can be used to house all the wet, cold groundlings who want to play cards but cannot fit 5 in a contrail
6)stealth, add a few bushes, trees, youd have to look REAL hard to see me
7)in a good forest, finding trees that let you lay side-by-side with your honey is easy to do (under one tarp). then you can share margaritas!
8)tarp can be pitched in a variety of shapes, coverage, and left behind if needed. so in reality, a hammock is a "double wall" shelter.
9)views, even with tarp in place – but not so much dependent on rotation.. meaning i can usually put the zipper side of my hammock anywhere within 360° with ease.
10)fun getting questions and doing show-and-tell. then seeing same ppl. next week, with hammocks of their own. :)

[Lori P]

"im trying to figure out how anyone can use a contrail, a neoair, and a sleeping bag (wm highlite?) for 54.5oz and save much over this (5.5oz, respectively). hence, another reason im a convert. if im given a choice of super versatility and unmatched comfort and a difference of 5-6oz, i'll do it. and these specs include a huge tarp, maybe twice the size of a contrail, and plenty of good storm protection if needed."

Well, we're at BPL – we're surrounded by folks who use a poncho for a shelter and sleep on foam pads on the ground. :) Comfort in sleeping gear is hardly the first consideration for folks who want to say it's more comfortable to have less on their back.

The versatility of a hammock setup was the icing on the cake for me. I could use a Sublite at 20 oz, the NeoAir medium at 13 oz, and a single JRB 3 season at 20 oz and manage to be at 53 oz without sacrificing bug protection, warmth, or some small comfort on the ground – I do in fact have just that setup. But it would mean sacrificing the ability to camp anywhere there are a couple of trees (or a single large oak tree with drooping branches – that's very comfortable indeed) and going back to dragging myself in and out of the tent every morning instead of swinging my legs out, changing clothes, starting the kettle to boil, and kicking back with breakfast.

The Sublite only goes with me if more than 2/3 of the trip is treeless. There is no real advantage to it otherwise.

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