Ursack Update

[Kevin Kingma]

Can't help but notice from these posts how we have come to obsess over the minute details of the public land agencies' food bear protection rules. And with SIBBG's demise it sounds like the rules were biased, unreliable, with no oversight.
From a strictly problem solving view, I think it would be better for skilled backpackers and BPL posters to solve the problem of protecting food from bears / bears from food. It kind of defies logic to entrust this to agencies that brought us 100 years of fire suppression, bear feeding shows in national parks, the near closure of Yosemite Valley's camp 4 to make room for more concessionaire-run rental lodging, and most recently, mine and deep water oil drilling safety monitoring.

[Steven McAllister]

My experience with the Ursack in areas where bears aren't so much of a problem:
1) I am never going to sleep with my food. I don't care what anyone says. It is way beyond common sense to do so.

2) Bears aren't the biggest issue in most places. Birds and small mammals can be a bigger issue. Birds and squirrels have been known to rip open hanging bear bags.

3) People often find they get hungry for a snack after the bear bag has been hung. Some even stash a snack in their pack just for those moments.

I use an Ursack in black bear country and have never had my food taken. I do have tooth marks in my Ursack, but mostly from raccoons, coyotes and other critters.

I would probably use a hard shell bear canisters in hardcore bear country, but the Ursack seems to work so far.

I feel the Ursack has been easier to deal with and more reliable than the other options.
If I was in brown bear country, I'd probably supplement using the mothball method used by many BC outdoors people.

[John Nausieda]

Hi . Mothball method is news to me but I understand the mechanism-sublimating solid . Your take on it? Thanks

[Sam Farrington]

Have been using ursacks since they first came out. Many interesting changes over the years, but don't expect them to survive a determined bear. When my half-blind rescue shelty was young and still manic from the shelter and heaven knows what else, she chewed her way through a 5/8" wide webbing lead made of four layers of ursack material folded to hide all edges and sewn with much kevlar thread. Only one of those layers on the original ursack separated bears from the contents. If a shelty pup can do it, I would be surprised if a determined bear could not.

So do not expect the ursacks to resist bears, and hang them as I always have hung bear bags, in the hope that bears will not be able to get to them. The kevlar, spectra etc. is good though with other critters.

Went through the JMT long ago, before what sounds like the arrival of many-many bears. It is sad that you all have to carry those monstrous containers while trying to backpack light. I would think it would detract from the hiking experience, but also remember how beatiful were parts of the JMT. I drive from NH to Colorado to trek almost every summer, and if I were a Caleeforneeyan, I would head there also, or to the wilderness further north.

The serenity of trekking is what I value most, and would not head back to the JMT while destinations more like wilderness still remain. For the posters who are thinking about RMNP, consider the nearby wilderness areas of Zirkel, the Rawahs, Never Summer or even Indian Peaks (which does require permits). Ray Ave has written guides and maps to the first two that are excellent. Off-trail rambling can be rewarding, also. I often go for days in those areas without seeing a soul (person or bear).

Don't think it is worth getting aggravated with the agencies and rangers in heavy bear areas. They are humans like us, and behave much the same way we would in the same circumstances ("We have met the enemy and it is us," Pogo), or at least that's what psychologists say. As long as you're willing to take the time to travel some, there is plenty of wilderness to share between us and the bears.

Have fun trekking, Sam

[Ken Thompson]

Bareboxer is 7 inches at the ends and 8 inches in the middle. The magic of the diameter is so a bear can't put one in its' mouth.

[Bob Gross]

"If I was in brown bear country, I'd probably supplement using the mothball method used by many BC outdoors people."

I'm not sure about brown bears, but we tried this with black bears about 30 years ago. It worked good at first, but then a bear scored some food anyway and ate it all, including the moth balls. After that, they associated the smell of moth balls with food, so it became an attractant.

–B.G.–

[Steven McAllister]

One of the weaknesses of the Ursack is that it can be ripped by a canines sharp teeth. Since the Ursack is normally hung, canines shouldn't be an issue.
Bears have rounder, duller teeth and so have a much harder time penetrating. They can definitely crush the food inside into a mess, but at least they won't be able to eat much.

I have had coyotes jump up, grab and swing on my Ursack, but eventually gave up from exhaustion. Now if it was hung lower they could have maybe penetrated.

[Joel Waddell]

Like another poster said the ursack is not designed to stop canines, its designed to stop bears.

Steven, that must have been one hell of a coyote to jump up and swing from your ursack. How high was it hung? If a yote can get your ursack wouldnt a bear be able to.

I will be hiking the JMT Aug 25 starting at TM and hiking out of YNP the same day. I'm not required to carry a canister. After much thought and debate I WILL carry a bearvault 450 from TM to Muir Trail Ranch where my resupply box will have my Ursack in it for the overflow food to the ten day push to Whitney.

The main reason being that I can drop a liter of water (since the JMT has plenty of water) which is what the 450 weighs. no weight gain.

The true peace of mind that my food will be there in the morning. The reason I hike is to get, peace of mind…

I wont have to debate with a ranger!

No food for the bears!!

[Steven McAllister]

Regarding:
"How high was it hung? If a yote can get your ursack wouldnt a bear be able to."

Typically you want to hang an Ursack from a strong branch above head level. Bears can reach this height, but are unable to get at the food because their teeth are too dull to penetrate the material.

The time the coyotes were swinging from mine was when I had hung it around five or six feet from the ground. That was were the only strong branch was.
It was low enough for them to jump and reach it, but too high for them to really chew on it.

I try to also hang mine over an area that would be awkward for raccoons and coyotes as I figure they are the biggest threat to an Ursack.

[Pieter Kaufman]

After spending the weekend with a Bare Boxer in my bag in the Sierra, I kept thinking that an Opsak combined with a bear bag has to be an even better solution than just a bag alone, simply because if there's no scent present to begin with, there's less to attract a bear in the first place.

I've been using Opsaks for a while and like them a lot. There are sizes available that are large enough to easily stuff several days worth of food into, which in turn could be put in to a bear bag and hung.

That said, I've never used an Ursack, and am considering one. For those who do, is there any real additional advantage to hanging them like a traditional bear bag, or is it preferable to keep them securely tethered to an immovable object but an object nevertheless within physical reach of a bear, as described on their site?

[Steven McAllister]

Regarding:
"or is it preferable to keep them securely tethered to an immovable object but an object"

I think the idea with an Ursack is to tie it to a tree branch thick enough to hold up to a bear's pull.

Hanging an Ursack would probably be fine, but if a bear was to break the line, they could carry the Ursack away. Tying it to a branch insures that a bear can't walk away with your Ursack full of food.

On the subject of Opsacks, They can smell like the food they contain over time, not from leakage, but from the fact that you get the smell on the outside of the bag from handling the food and then touching the bag.
It would be extremely difficult to not get food smell on the outside of an Opsack.

[Pieter Kaufman]

",,,Opsacks, They can smell like the food they contain over time, not from leakage, but from the fact that you get the smell on the outside of the bag from handling the food and then touching the bag. It would be extremely difficult to not get food smell on the outside of an Opsack."

Right. Or at least I agree. It's something I've always kept in mind when handling my food and bags and so forth; I try to keep things fairly neat and keep food from spreading. I'm also sufficiently fussy that I wash my Opsaks in the dishwasher after trips. No problems so far.

That said, I wouldn't rely on them by themselves, but I imagine using one large Opsak with other smaller bags of food inside can't but help.

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