Net inner or bivy with duomid?

[Stuart Allie]

Howdy,

I'm seriously looking at getting a MLD duomid for solo use, but I'm less sure about whether to get a bivy (probably a MLD superlight) or the MLD solo net inner tent.

I'd like the system for all-year round use so it has to be able to cope with a wide range of weather. I walk in SW Tasmania and in New Zealand so the shelter has to be able to deal with lots of rain, wind, snow, cold (but not too much below freezing) as well as hot, dry, sunny days. Oh yes, flying bugs and ground crawlies (ticks, leeches, spiders, …) are an issue all year round. Advice from UK walkers is most welcome :)

My sleep system is a CCF pad with a thermarest prolite 4 short on top, and a JRB quilt.

For the net tent, my main concerns are:
– Will it be warm enough in winter? (How breezy is the duomid, how much does the nanoseeum mesh slow the wind, will the mesh stop enough spindrift for the down quilt to stay dry enough?)
– Is the 2-3.5in bathtub floor really high enough to cope with very wet ground?
– Will the mesh stop enough splash from wind-driven rain for the quilt to stay dry?

For the bivy option, my concerns are:
– Will I be too hot in summer? (Need the bug protection, but I sleep pretty hot – I guess I could shove the quilt down to the foot of the bivy)
– I'm a side sleeper who swaps from side to side a lot during the night. Is that even possible in a bivy?

Any input would be welcome. Even suggestions that I should just get a Moment instead…

Cheers,
Stuart

[BlackHatGuy]

Hi Stuart,

I'm new to the DuoMid, but I love it already, especially for one person use. Yeah, tis' heavier than other options, but I love the room! I just ordered the duo innernet, which I plan to use in warmer weather for the ventilation and, again, the room inside. For winter, I used a bivy in the DuoMid last weekend, and would probably continue to do this.

Not much help, I know! But I'd say get the DuoMid, get the inner, and get a bivy! I would have been too cold last weekend (14F) without the bivy. But I'd be way too hot in the warmer weather in a bivy (like you I sleep warm).

FWIW.

[Jeff K]

To make it even more complicated you could consider the solo and duo sized MLD net tents. The MLD or similar bug bivy is somewhere in between the two options you suggest.

I am curious as to what others with experience recommend.

[Bill Poett]

Hi Stuart

I'd go with the inner tent. I recently had my Duo out in a California coastal storm we had reported wind gust in excess of 60 kts with an inch of rain in the same hour. With no bivy or inner net I was as warm and dry as you could ever hope. Incredible space and protection for the solo hiker in adverse weather. If you didn't have the creepers I's say skip the inner as well.

This is one purchase you won't regret.

Good luck.

Bill

[Stuart Allie]

@Douglas – thanks, but I am *trying* not to spend too much money all in one go :) Actually, what you wrote is helpful because I don't think I'll see temps as low as 14F – it usually doesn't get much below 25F where I walk (ignoring wind chill) so the net inner should be sufficient.

@Bill – thank you! That's a very useful bit of real-world experience to share. It does sound as if the net inner will work fine for me.

Look like my birthday list is sorted for this year! Thanks guys.

Cheers,
Stuart

[Jonathon Rogers]

I've used the Solo Inner Net in the summer and a light (Equinox) DWR bivy in the winter with good results.

Truthfully, with the Duomid staked to the ground even the DWR bivy is probably overkill unless you were in some pretty extreme conditions blowing spindrift up under the staked edges, but I suppose it could happen.

[simon hackett]

no experience with the duomid but I have the gatewood cape with the serenity net tent. As a uk user I would say go with the net tent for bug protection and poor weather comfort. I have a bivy and it's not nice to be forced into the bivy and then be stuck there just because it's midgey. If you're camping with a friend then you can share the space evening times to chat etc. I've used the net/gatewood combo in winter conditions and been fine with a lightweight sleeping bag and insulated clothing.

[G Foster McLachlan]

I'm a proponent of the duo. I have the superlight bivy as well. That's a nice piece too. I plan to buy the inner net to comlete the package-weight sacrifice for sure but for those hot, humid and buggy nights I'll be satisfied.

ALways looking to kill two birds w one stone. That's part of UL but often it doens't turn out that way. Sneakers at different sizes for changing seasons, double that for stoves(of course if you have four seasons)How about a tarp,mid, bivy or tent..well whats the conditions-circumstance dictates. We could go on. If I only knew when I got on this UL quest.

I believe the inner net has 3 inch tub-which is decent protection for rain, mud puddles I bet- I hope. It won't offer same wind protection for warmth as a bivy. But its more roomy than a bivy which is nice for a change for me.

I have a large bivy and its plenty big for to dance in.
But it gets hot as heck in 70 degree humid nights-thats why I'm buying inner net(bugs are relentless in my parts and I have no plans on challenging them). And yeah, just kick the quilt aside, but then the bivy sticks to you like saran wrap. :)

If you had money for one to start-buy the bivy for sure. A bivy is core to my sleep/shelter system and offers more versatility and can be used all year around. But you will find yourself saving for the inner net after a hot and buggy summer night.

[Sanad Toukhly]

I have the MLD Bug Bivy. Has anyone used it with the Duomid? For those of you who have tried it, were you able to tie up both bungee cords to keep the netting off your face while you sleep?

-Sid

[Pieter Kaufman]

"I'm a side sleeper who swaps from side to side a lot during the night. Is that even possible in a bivy?"

In the MLD Superlight, yes. I just used mine for the first time this past weekend, I also favor side sleeping, and my sleeping bag (a WM Summerlite) was the most limiting factor in moving around. I could have stuffed a whole host of other things in the bivy around me. with room to spare.

BTW, I have the Superlight with the full head end mesh, and perhaps you might want to consider that. It'll ventilate more easily than the more enclosed version. Also, if you need the bivy but it's hot, perhaps ditching the quilt in favor of a silk liner is the thing to do. I know one or more of BPL's staff do that when desert backpacking, as I plan to as well.

[Diplomatic Mike]

The Duomid has become my favourite 3 season shelter. It would cope with winter use, but i prefer my Stephensons 2R in winter for the extra warmth.
I've tried out various options with the Duomid, but use the Duo Inner tent most of the time. One of the reasons i love the Duomid is the amount of space and headroom in it. Using the Duo Inner means that most of that internal space is available to me, insect free. If you intend to use a bivvy most of the time, then the Solo mid might be a better choice. No point in having all that room if you don't use it.

[David Ure]

Mike – how is it with respect to length? If you do push against the netting, is there a lot of stress on the fabric? Thanks,

[Diplomatic Mike]

I'm 5'10" so there is loads of room for me. I wouldn't think pushing against the net could cause any stress. The floor is pegged using shock cord, so there is plenty of 'give' in the set-up.
These pics might give you more idea of the internal space.
.
.
.
.For scale, that's a Montbell UL Thermal sheet, on a Montbell UL Pad and Pillow with a section of GG 3/8 Thinlite CCF pad.

[Mark Verber]

The DuoMid + innernet solo is an extremely versatile system. I am 5'10". As to your concerns:

Bivy: I haven't used the superlight but I have used bivies like it. I haven't found DWR type bivies too "warm" until somewhere between 70-80F (20-25C) or above. At that point the issue isn't "warmth", its more about wind resistance… I want to feel cool breezes. As to space, I had no problems sleeping on my side or moving around. The only movement issue is getting in and out of a bivy is much more constrained that getting under a quilt.

net tent: The best (and most weight efficient) way to be adequately warm is to bring an appropriately warm quilt. You can pitch the duomid to the ground which will keep the wind at bay. The floor should be find unless you are camping in a bog… in which case you should be looking for a better site and/or use a hammock. You don't need the mesh to protect against splashed. The duomid is large enough that if properly pitched you will be protected splashes and spray.

Compared to the ultralight bivy the innernet is a palace… but it's not that much usable space when compared to any of the shelters from say tarptent.com. The walls slant in pretty aggressively. When I shift from say, lying down to sitting up I normally come in brief contact with the netting when I move. Once I have settled into a position I am normally not touching the netting. So the space is adequate, but creates a bug free space which is smaller than the space I normally like to move in. When I lie on my stomach and prop myself up on my elbows my head is in full contact with the netting. This is a position I use often when reading in the early evening. I need to read wearing a hat or will need to find a better position. Bottom line, I have found the innernet to be completely adquate from a "protection from bugs space", but it isn't luxury.

Amount of bug free space for the way I move and live:
typical bivy < innernet solo < GG the one < smd lunar solo < tarptent rainbow

–Mark

[Diplomatic Mike]

Mark finds the usable space 'adaquete' using a Solo inner.
I find the usable space palatial in the Duo inner, for just a small extra weight penalty. :)

Why have all that internal space and not use it? YMMV. :)

[David Ure]

Awesome pics Mike – thanks.

I am not too concerned with card playing room. Moreso the length of the inner net.

[David Ure]

Mark – do you set up the Duo Mid first and then set up the solo inner net inside? Sounds ideal in the rain…

[BlackHatGuy]

"Moreso the length of the inner net."

When I set mine up this past weekend (without the innernet) I kanted the pole a lot, which gave me even more room. Such a setup would allow you to sleep almost diagonal to really maximize the space.

I'll set it up like this in my yard this weekend a post a pic or two, with some measurements, to let you know.

I agree with Mike, it's about the perfect 3-season (and for me, with a bivy, 4-season) setup. Mine will be getting a lot of use after I'm through playing with my other stuff.

[David Ure]

Thanks Doug.

[Jason Elsworth]

I have the MLD Bug Bivy. Has anyone used it with the Duomid?

I haven't used this combo, but I did ask Ron about it and he told me it would work, but not that well.

[BlackHatGuy]

Okay, as promised. Here's my older DuoMid set up with the trekking poles in an inverted V to maximize interior space. As you can see, it's still a pretty tight pitch. The handles of both poles (LT4s) fit into the reinforced area at the top (in other words, neither was pressing against the sil). One LT4 had a prototype GG CF extender, the other had a borrowed MLD pole jack. I did this setup pretty quick, so it's a bit higher than I'd have it in winter, but you still get the idea. I measured 118" from left back corner to right front corner, just to give you an idea of the room. To get a more realistic idea, I put my GoLite Adrenaline 0 degree quilt (used to be a bag, Tim Marshall just turned it into a quilt for me, great job!). It's lofted quite well. When the quilt is in the middle (instead of angled), I measured 10" from the top of the end of the footbox, parallel to the ground, to the edge of the Mid (just touching the sil). I hope that makes sense. But IOW, I could have put my NeoAir under me, and climbed inside, and I still wouldn't have been touching the Mid at either end. And that's with a thick, 0 degree down bag. And angled would give you a few more inches, I would think.

Anyway, here's some pics.

front

back

open partial

open fully

open fully top angle

kanted

footbox room

[David Ure]

Doug – outstanding pics. A ton of room!

Thanks for the PM!

[Mark Verber]

> do you set up the Duo Mid first and then set up the solo inner net inside? Sounds ideal in the rain.

yes. I can set up the duomid and get under it. The solo innernet can be easily set up from the inside. I slip the guylines from the innernet over the stakes for the duomid, and then attach the top loop (which I made from shock cord) to the top hook.

As to while solo innernet… in the rain it's really nice to have the extra space to manage wet things. For me, the inner net was fine side to side. What moves it from good to adequate, is that I would really like it to be a bit longer which the duo innernet doesn't provide.

–Mark

[Diplomatic Mike]

The Duo inner tent allows you to sleep on the diagonal if you wish, Mark. That gives you extra length. You can either use 2 poles as Douglas has shown, or offset one pole. I don't need to bother, as the length is fine for me.

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