Best Stove for use with Puncture Canister

[backpackerchick]

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/MSR-WhisperLite-International-Multi-Fuel-Stove/CAS0060M.html

[j lan]

I am a big fan of my Primus Omnifuel.

It has been dead bulletproof when you need it most. It can accept canisters, white gas, petro, kerosene, etc. Very durable and folds down small. I purchased it with the intention of using it in many situations where canisters would be difficult to come by.

Cons – A little loud, weight (this is probably partially due to the metal liquid pump, but I am glad it won't crack/break like I have heard about msr plastic pumps)

[backpackerchick]

Thanks Jay

I will check it out. This will be my first such stove so I am also looking for the most idiot proof. In general I look for products I can use with gloves on!

It should be a good trip to tinker with new toys as the hike itself should not be terribly demanding and you do have people around every so often. :)

[James Patsalides]

@BPChick: I'm really surprised there isn't easy access to denatured alcohol / methylated spirits in Turkey… might investigate some of the local brands and see if there are hardware stores or gas stations near the route that would provide you with sources. That way you could invest in a whitebox stove or something like that and have a consistent and easy to use footprint.

I never had any trouble getting meths hiking in the US, UK or even in Cyprus…

Anyway, whitebox stoves are about $20. Check out whiteboxstoves.com… I have the "original" version and I absolutely LOVE it. Of course, there are loads of other brands out there, this is just my choice.

Good luck!

[j lan]

Gas stoves in general take a little more finesse that canister stoves. The main thing is to just practice at home for a bit and it will be a no brainer soon enough. The main reason is that since they are burning liquid, most of them need to be primed. This involves letting a little fuel out and heating up the stove using the priming pad.

The only white gas stove I remember using that didn't require priming was the coleman feather.

I think you will have no problems at all.

[backpackerchick]

Thanks James:

Someone else posted about alcohol in this thread. Yes, some of these alcohols are available but certainly not easy to find! For this trip, the ability to burn petrol will be very advantageous. I have sussed this out pretty well.

That MSR one has a fat "tube" which is supposed to be good for burning crappy fuel.

Thanks Jay:

More finesse than a canister which requires no finesse? Yes, I will practice and figure it out and presumably anyone else I encounter on the trail will be using a similar stove as petty seems the easiest option. I know about the priming and stuff. Traveled often with people who use this sort of stove. Just looks complex. I'm kind of being a sissy.

[James Patsalides]

Huh, seems strange, since the whole point of denaturing the alcohol is to make it undrinkable! Also, Turkey is pretty secular – you will def be able to buy and drink wine and so forth over there without too many troubles, if you so desire.

Anyway, looks like you're on the right path looking for multi-fuel stoves – MSR whisperlite or dragonfly look like good options.

One other thought… wonder if you could bring or ship ahead esbit/hexamine or perhaps find hexamine blocks there, sometimes used as starters in barbeques etc? Very cheap, efficient and lightweight fuel if you can do it… ;-)

[backpackerchick]

Yeah James,

Seriously, who's going to drink the stuff? But it's simply not all that available — one guy posted that in Antalya — the major town — it is available only at the Migro on the liquor shelf.

I think I have the fuel availability pretty well sussed out. My info is from the lady who way marked the trail to GR standards. We have exchanged many emails. http://www.trekkinginturkey.com Of course, I welcome info from other sources!

I enjoyed your comment about being able to find all sort of fuel in the US. We live in a consumer hell — there's is not much you can't get here. Evidently, you can't get that adapter thing here. :)

If it's even possible, shipping flammable material from the US is likely to be expensive and a PITA. It must go ground within the US, I believe.

Stoves for pierce cans don't appear to be available at major US online retailers. For the record, cheap stoves for the infamous blue pierce cartridge CAN be bought where you buy the cartridges in Antalya — I found this out this morning. There will be 3 places to buy the blue cartridges over the 530km walk. Unleaded petrol is available in many more places.

The MSR Whisperlite International claims to have a fatter "hose" — suppose to be good for crappy fuel? While not at the level of most of you guys, I'm at the point where I ought to be able to use a fuel stove!

[James Patsalides]

@Hartley: Sounds like you've got it figured out. Contacting the trail blazer is a master-stroke.

Oh, I have to give you just ONE more idea… I haven't tried it personally, but there's some interesting reading here about wood burning stoves – bet there's plenty of sustainable and non-toxic wood available in Turkey, cheap too. Maybe that would be an unusual but intriguing option for you? ;-)

Either way, can't wait to see your trip report. Good luck!

Peace, James.

[Willem Jongman]

As I said, most travellers in the third wolrd seem to use multifuel stoves. You can run these on unleaded petrol/gasoline as a last resort, but that is not very good for your health. Car fuel contains many additives, and some of them are pretty carcinogenic. White gas is smuch better, even if rather harder to get. Alternatively, kerosine (parafin oil in British Engligh) is a very safe fuel, and in some countries the easiest fuel to get.

[backpackerchick]

Hey guys, thanks so much. My current pot of choice is Snow Peak Titanium Solo. Will such a small pot sit stably on a stove like the MSR whisperlite?

I will probably get a bigger pot as I am always boiling 2 loads at a time. One to make a soup/coffee — pour in mug. Then boil up another batch of water for my Vegan Mary Jane's Organic Backcountry Cuisine. Just a digestive hint for anyone new to Mary Jane's Organic — don't cook it in the bag. Repackage into snack/sandwich and let it sit in your cooker or insulated vessel for twice the time it says on the bag!

Maybe even a third batch of water for a hot water bottle for my sleeping bag. Currently use that newer Nalgene with the skinny top since I like this for energy drinks. Think I will try making hot water bottle from Platypus. In the sink.

[Chris Townsend]

If going for a multi fuel stove the Primus Omnifuel, Optimus Nova and Nova+, MSR Whisperlite Internationale and MSR XGK EX are the best with different and dirty fuels in my experience. Of these the Optimus Novas have the advantage of using the same jets for different fuels. Changing the tiny jets on the other stoves is fiddly but easier on the MSRs than the Omnifuel. The big advantage of the Omnifuel is that you can use it with resealable canisters when available.

[backpackerchick]

Thanks Chris:

The information — especially the hassle factor — of each of those stoves is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! Thanks!

I read your book: http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Backpacker-Handbook-Long-Distance-Hiking/dp/0071357564/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255378286&sr=8-1

Highly recommend it. Really studied it at the time. Should probably refer back to it when issues like this come up.

[Roger Caffin]

Yep, many will swear by the Whisperlite International. Petrol (UNleaded, please!) and kero both work. A jet change is needed however. I have used one for many years.

The XGK is also very reliable, but the manual does say that priming it is done with a 'fireball' – the word IS used! And it is rather heavy too.

As others have mentioned, several other stoves are also multi-fuel. The Primus Gravity II series are good – better than the original Gravity EF ones.

However, life with a petrol stove is never as simple as a canister or alky stove. There are always compromises. I do NOT like petrol – I've experienced too many accidents.

Just because (alcohol, canister) fuel is only available in one shop in a town does not mean that the fuel should be avoided. The towns may be small – why should they need more than one good outlet for that fuel?

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Yeah, small pots can be a pain.

There are plenty of good light wide Hard Anodised Aluminium (HAA) pots around in the 1.2 – 1.5 L size. If you are keen you could invest in a similar-sized titanium pot. They are very reliable.

Cheers

[backpackerchick]

Roger:

One good outlet for the fuel? And Carry it for 530km. This alcohol must be pretty efficient stuff. No, I would not preferentially burn petrol!

Fireball with Whisperlite International too? Smaller fireball? Yes, this gets my attention in a big way. I'm exaggerating a bit — I've seen this stove type used quite a bit — even at tables in shelters under good light where you can see what's going on. I have seen BIG FIREBALLS. Didn't know if this was stove specific or operator specific. Or done for effect!

You talk about petrol "accidents". Would you care to elaborate? A spill — ruining a sleeping bag. An explosion — sending your wife to hospital with 3rd degree burns.

[Chris Townsend]

Hartley, in my experience any of the multi-fuel stoves can produce a fireball during priming. I wouldn't prime any of them under cover. I haven't found the X-GK any worse than the others. I used an X-GK for a summer long walk through Norway and Sweden. At times I used kerosene and unleaded petrol and although there were dirty fumes when priming it never stopped working.

Oh, one way to avoid fireballs is to use kerosene as this is actually quite hard to light. You need either a separate priming fuel (alcohol, solid fuel tablets) or bits of paper or cardboard dipped in kerosene. But kerosene is a messy fuel that leaves greasy stains.

Glad you like my book, by the way. Thanks.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Hartely

> One good outlet for the fuel?
One outlet PER TOWN.

> Fireball with Whisperlite International too? Smaller fireball?
Yeah, it is possible to light a Whisperlite Int'l without a fireball. Takes practice, that's all. As Chris said, kero doesn't fireball but you should prime with metho. But it stinks – my wife disliked kero for all the years i used it.

I think the fireball is partly stove specific, but some users are just … clumsy (or careless). I have seen people light their petrol stoves by sticking them in a wood fire …

> petrol "accidents"
For example: someone spilt petrol around while filling, and that burned a hole in the corner of my pack and a large hole in my SB. I spent the night sewing a spare handkerchief over the charred mess. We were almost a week from anywhere that night – very remote.

I have often seen someone lighting a petrol stove on the ground or on a bench, while spilling fuel around the stove accidentally. The result always seems to surprise them. They usually do little more than scorch their eyebrows and hair (a fast blink response helps).

One of the best examples of the hazards of pertrol as a fuel was when two guys were trying to light a petrol stove inside their tent in the Himalayas. Their matches were wet, and they had trouble getting one to light. When they finally succeeded, the spilt priming fuel went whoomp, and they lost the fabric of their tent. Just the poles left (briefly) standing.

Petrol (white gas, etc) scares me – especially when others are using it.

Cheers

[backpackerchick]

G'day Roger:

Sounds like the accidents you describe resulted from spills.

I survived organic chemistry relatively unscathed — a bit of an accident to my grade point average though. Didn't always recover and identify the the unknown but wasn't one of the particularly dangerous people. Don't think I had a lab balance — we had to pay for the stuff we broke.

Think I will look for videos on youtube about how to do this — BMC and others have some good footage of various skills. Then perhaps I will make a video of me with my stove. I am just learning about making videos. Coming soon…

[Lynn Tramper]

I have friends that have been using first an XG-K, and then more recently a Whisperlite over the past ~17 years. As yet, they have not mastered the art of lighting it without a fireball. Me thinks they are slow learners as I had only to set a bench on fire once before I learned how to properly prime these beasts. Even so, I would not prime one in a tent vestibule or on a wooden bench. Petrol stoves in other folks hands are indeed a scary prospect!

[Roger Caffin]

> Sounds like the accidents you describe resulted from spills.
Mostly.

But there is a guy occasionally on the Forums who can tell a different story. He had two petrol stoves going side by side with large pots. The reflected heat from the pots hit the fuel tanks, and after a while one of the tanks ruptured. Losing a tent was minor: two people nearby got very severe burns to face and arms and, afaik, are still undergoing plastic surgery years later.

Cheers

[backpackerchick]

There are some videos on you tube of Jet Boil accidents. There will always be someone who finds away to mess it up no matter how idiot-proof the construction.

I just watched a decent vid on you tube of a guy demo-ing an MSR Whisperlite. I don't think he primed it. (Perhaps, off camera) Doesn't look too hard to master. Actually, being a pyro-phobe might be an advantage. Also a good vid of Panasonic LX3 — don't even need to read the manual — by that funny dpreview guy.

[Anonymous]

"Doesn't look too hard to master"

Exactly, Hartley, IME. I used both the XGK and the Whisperlite a lot a long time ago and only had one flare up, which didn't qualify as a fire ball-it only got up a couple of inches above the stove. The trick is to not pump up the pressure too high initially, then open the valve just a teeny bit, and bleed perhaps a millimeter or so of fuel into the pan. It doesn't take much to warm the tube up enough to vaporize the gas. You can pump the stove up to operating pressure once it's lit. This is a fellow pyrophobe's approach.

[Bailey Gin]

I think the Primus Omnifuel and Optimus NOVA/+ are a bit safer to prime and light since they use a wick type action to hold the priming fuel…less chance of a spill. With both, I never had a fireball…flare ups if I open the control valve a little too soon thou.

b.gin

[Tohru Ohnuki]

Even alcohol stoves are not foolproof. I made the mistake of trying to relight a hot penny stove and it 'coughed' burning fuel on me. I have a burnt hole in one of my pants that I leave there to remind me not to be stupid.

You should definitely consider a wider pot as tall, narrow cups tend not to heat as efficiently on stoves with wide burners like the whisperlite.

You might want to look at this site, they have a good summary of different stove types and the advantages/disadvantages based on stove weight, fuel energy density etc:

Zenstoves.net

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