Updated Gear List

[Brad Rogers]

I don't ever use a footprint with the SL1, so if there is already snow on the ground, the tent goes right on top. In that particular snow, there was only a dusting of snow when I set up the tent at night. It had been snowing since about 10am that morning, but the ground was still too warm for it to stick. Temps for the first couple of days of that trip were in the 70's, the third day it was 30 and snowing, and got down to the mid twenties that night and never got above freezing (or stopped snowing) the fourth day.

[Frank Deland]

Brad here is a tech question for you. If the first wall of the SL1 is bug netting, does the bug nest under a SpinnShelter make it a double wall shelter, too? I do no think a mesh wall counts as a wall that would make a double wall shelter when the fly is added as the second wall. Why? What is the purpose of the double wall? The second wall is to form a tunnel allowing an air flow to eliminate condensation. Isn't the netting wall too porous? Moisture drips through.

[Laurence Beck]

Frank, You may be right about this although I never get condensation in the SL1. In comparison, before I bought the SL1, I used to camp with a Eureka Zeus EXO2. It is truly a single wall tent and I would get a minor rain shower in the tent every morning.

[Roger Caffin]

> I do no think a mesh wall counts as a wall that would make a double wall shelter
Chuckle. That's an argument which we have had many times. Some say it is a 'double wall', which is true in a way. We agreed to add 'snow tent' to indicate when the inner wall is serious.

Reality is that we meet such a spectrum of weather conditions that simple 2-part classifications are pretty useless.

cheers

[Hikin’ Jim]

I am looking at the WM Summerlite myself. It seems the perfect bag for summer backpacking.

I really like my bag. A one pound bag that's actually pretty warm, what's not to like? :)

It really is versatile. I use it a lot on "quick overnighters" in the local So. Cal. mountains where it can be quite warm just sleeping under the stars but also in the Sierra. The full zip is really nice — I can take on hikes in Arizona where I'd swelter in a bag with only a half zip and yet sleep in patchy snow at 5 digit altitudes. If it gets really cold, I supplement with a second pair of socks and a down sweater.

Did I mention I really like the bag? ;)

I normally sleep in uw unless it's under 30 deg then I sleep in the MB down inners.

So I guess you're not worried about body oils compromising the down? Or do you just plan on washing the bag on a regular basis. I always bring long johns (even if just "silk weight") and a pair of liner socks to keep my body oils away from the bag.

[Brad Rogers]

Frank – While not double wall shelters in the true winter tent sense, they are marketed as "double walled shelter" by tent makers today. Why I prefer them over single walled shelters like the Tarptent Contrail, etc, is I hike in wet (80-100 inches of rain per year), humid environments (it takes days for anything to dry unless you can get in the sun which isn't easy in the green tunnel), so if it rains I like to be able to store my wet rain-fly separately from my "inner bug tent", that way it doesn't get wet. I am not saying that I have never gotten condensation in the SL1 or SpinnShelter/Bug Tent combo, but I have never had it drip on me. I leave the door open when I can. I know in the more arid areas out west in the Rockies ans Sierras things dry quickly so that wouldn't be as much of a issue. In fact everyone I know from the southeast is so amazed at how fast things dry when they hike out west. People on here talk about their trailrunners being dry 15 minuets afters crossing a creek, ha, not where I am from, you just deal with wet feet!

[Brad Rogers]

Laurence – I have a Summerlite and it is a terrific bag. I sleep a bit cold and only find it warm to the mid-upper 30's. I like the full zip so I can open it up and use it as a quilt on warm summer nights. My only word of caution is that it is a narrow bag with a 59" shoulder girth (most bags are ~62") so make sure that isn't a issue with the bag (WM makes a 62" version the Megalite).

WM does make great bags though, I have a Ultralite (pre Super – i.e. no draft collar) that has given me good service for at least a couple of hundred nights and is just as warm as new.

[Laurence Beck]

Brad, Thanks for the advice. The narrow bag would be an issue for me because I tend to roll around a lot in the bag through the night. Plus I would need to add the MB Down Inners when the temp did drop to 30 degF or below.

[backpackerchick]

Bag rolls with occupant instead occupant rolling within bag?

[Laurence Beck]

Hi Hartley, How are you?

I tend to toss and turn through out the night but I don't like the bag to roll with me. I like to turn but still keep the zipper facing the same direction. I will probably get the Megalite which is 24oz instead of 19oz.

Now I just have to prioritize my upgrade plan…

I think it should be like this:

1. ULA OHM (approx $140)
2. Mini Bear Vault (for 4 day trips or less) $67. Rent Bearikade for longer trips.

3. Megalite (mucho dinero!)

These three items will drop my base weight about 2 lbs from 16.5 lbs to 14.5 lbs. Of course a Tarp Tent could give me another 1.5 to 2 lbs as well. If I could just try one out without a committment but for now I have not convinced myself to let go of my SL1 yet.

[backpackerchick]

I have one — I would be able to get a week's worth of freeze dried type food in there. Probably more if I selected carefully. YOU on the other hand may be able to get 2 weeks of food into the Solo. Just kidding.

[Laurence Beck]

Good one!

I basically filled my Garcia the brim with 9 days of food this past summer. I could probably get 5-6 days in a BV Solo though. Remember: At my age you tend to need less calories :)

[Art …]

Would you pay $128 to save 5 oz ?

BV Solo – $67, 2-lb 1-oz, 440 ci (8.7"dia, 8.3"ht)

Bearikade Scout – $195, 1-lb 12-oz, 500 ci (9"dia, 8"ht)

The Scout is a superbly made but expensive alternative for those who spare no expense to save weight.

[Lori P]

I much prefer the locking mechanism on the Bearikades. I'm very tired of breaking my fingers on the lid of the Bear Vault on low 30s mornings trying to get the #$%^^@$%^% tabs past the stop. I keep using granite chunks to do it, but at any point I might end up breaking off the tabs entirely.

However, the Bear Boxer has a lighter, smaller can that I'm considering for 2-3 day outings… also cheaper. My multi tool works great on the locks.

[backpackerchick]

Larry, I bet I'm older than you!

As for the tabs on the Solo, you can use the end of your spork, a tent stake, a blunt part of a multi tool, whatever. I agree, finger nails, as they suggest don't, work. I put the pressure on the serrated part at the very start of the tab — actually had to read the directions to figure this out.

Good little stool too.

I love that it is clear. I am new to bear country. It is the only one I've tried. It is a PITA to get in the pack and still have the pack balance nicely.

Clearly, the BV could be made of lighter materials and maintain the same integrity — might price it out of the market though.

[Laurence Beck]

I have heard of the hassles surrounding the Bear Vault in general. Thanks for reminding me of this…

In regards to cost/weight savings, I would probably opt for a cheaper 2-4 day solution but for long trips then I would rent the Bearikade as suggested by earlier posters in this thread. You are right though, the cheapest solution in regards to oz/$ spent is the mini-BV. Especially right now…its on sale at REI for $50.

BV Solo – 33oz, 440 cu in, $50 (maybe a big hassle though?)

Bare Boxer Contender – 25.6oz 275 cu in, $50 including shipping.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I tend to toss and turn through out the night but I don't like the bag to roll with me. I like to turn but still keep the zipper facing the same direction. I will probably get the Megalite which is 24oz instead of 19oz.

Not sure what you might need. Dunno if anyone around So. Cal. carries the Summerlite, but you could check it out for sizing.

I am 6ft tall and I weigh about 195 lbs

I'm 6'0", about 200 lbs, and wear a 44 coat (or 46, depending on the brand). I'm a side sleeper, and I roll around quite a bit. I have enough room in the Summerlite, even if I wear a down sweater. It's definitely not a roomy bag, but it works for me.

[backpackerchick]

Hey Larry and Jim,

Maybe you guys are candidates for the duvet setup popular on this forum! LOL

BTW, can you get lightweight bags that aren't "mummies"? Personally, I'm not interested. I'm looking for a narrower bag — less space to heat.

[Joe Clement]

Gain weight, less to heat, more insulation.

[Laurence Beck]

Jim, We must be exactly the same size then. I guess I could purchase the Summerlite, try it out in my living room, and then, return it for the Megalite if it's not right for me.

Hartley, What is a duvet?

[Hikin’ Jim]

A duvet is a quilt.

BTW, can you get lightweight bags that aren't "mummies"? Personally, I'm not interested. I'm looking for a narrower bag — less space to heat.

Non mummy lightweight? Probably not. The mummy shape as you note makes it warmer but also makes it lighter. Why carry around all the excess material of a rectangular bag?

[Hikin’ Jim]

Maybe you guys are candidates for the duvet setup popular on this forum! LOL

OK, everyone, please get out your torches and pitch forks, Jim the Heretic is about to speak: I know many absolutely swear by their quilts, but I find that sleeping bags are warmer than quilts. I open my bag into a quilt when I want to cool down. Besides, with a basically a one pound bag, I'm pretty content. I probably won't shell out the several hundred dollars just to try out a quilt. I've already got a 1 pound 32F bag and a 2 pound 15F bag. Nuff bags already. (told ya I was a heretic) lol

In all fairness, I have not tried a Nunatak (sp?) or any other sophisticated quilt.

[backpackerchick]

I take it you guys who roll around in your bag, do not use the hood and baffle (and the gadgetry there associated) too much. I think there are some lightweight rectangular bags without hood and scrunchy cords, velcro, etc. Suspect weight difference could be minimal. I must get on the road to Vegas — ugh. Will look later.

It was a bit of a joke as I get the sense that Larry does not do quilts.

Bye bye.

BTW, if your bag has a full zip (opens completely), that's a lot of extra weight.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I take it you guys who roll around in your bag, do not use the hood and baffle (and the gadgetry there associated) too much.

I use the hood all the time (if it's warranted by the cold). I typically wind up sleeping with my ear sticking out of the hood opening instead of my nose, but such is the life of a side sleeper. When I wake up, I right myself, unzip the bag, and go about my business.

BTW, if your bag has a full zip (opens completely), that's a lot of extra weight.

Well, if the whole bag is basically one pound, it's not much of a weight penalty. :) The WM Summerlite is a very popular bag on this forum and with good reason.

My background is traditional backpacking. I had a really bad experience as a kid sleeping in a cold, wet down bag in Evolution Valley in the Sierra along the JMT. All of my bags from the 70's to the 90's (and a few years thereafter) where synthetic and in the 3.5 to 4 pound range. A sleeping bag that's about a pound is so freaking light and compact compared to my old bags that I could care less about the minimal weight of a full length zipper.

Besides, the full length zipper really adds to the versatility of the bag. In my last trip to the Sierra, I slept at elevations from 5500+ to 11,500+. In the lower elevations, highs approached 100F with lows in the low 80's. In the upper elevations, highs maybe were high 70's, and lows in the 30's. That full length zipper allows me to accommodate a wide range of temperatures. Hot? Unzip fully. Mild? Zip half way. Cold? Zip up fully, possibly augment with a down sweater. Works for me. :)

[Laurence Beck]

Jim,

Like you said! :)

Hartley – I am years away from trying a quilt so I guess I will have to be hung from the same yard arm as Jim here!

Larry

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