Updated Gear List

[Laurence Beck]

Last February I went through several iterations to reduce my base weight via this forum. I got down to around 16.5 lbs including a Garcia bear cannister. This past summer I hiked the Rae Lakes Loop CC taking 4 days and I was carrying about 25 lbs max. Is this in the ballpark for a late August Sierra trip? I know many of you are hiking the Sierra's. How much are you carrying totally?

Here is my current list:

37 Granite Gear Vapor Trail
42.7 Big Agnes SL1
26 Thermarest ProlitePlus Regular
1 CCF Seat Pad 12×12
35 REI Sahara 30 degF regular
44 Garcia Bear Cannister
13.7 Cooking (Listed below)
9.8 Water (Listed below)
38.9 Clothing (Listed below)
5 First Aid Bug repellant
2 REI Jungle Juice
1.3 Toothbrush/Toothpaste
2 Soap
3 TP
3 Head light
=======================================
Total Base Weight 264.4 oz 16.525 lbs

Food 2 oatmeal, 1 Cliff Bar, 1 tuna creation, 1 MH Entrée, 2 coffees approx 16oz/day
Food for four days 60 oz
2L water 70.6 oz
Fuel (4 days) 7.1 oz
=======================================
Total Weight 402.1 oz approx 25.13 lbs

Cooking
5.8 Evernew 1100ml titanium
3.9 MSR Pocket Rocket
0.9 BPL Titanium Stove Shield
1.8 Titanium Cup
0.6 Long handled titanium spoon
0.7 Measuring cup
============================== 13.7 oz

Water Handling
3.1 6L Water Tank
3.8 2 – 1 L water bottles
2.9 32oz Klear Water
=================================
9.8 oz

Clothing
5.8 Driducks Rain Jacket
9.5 MB Down Inner Parka (XL)
8.0 MB Down Inner Pants (XL)
3.3 Beanie/Glove Liners
2.6 extra pair uw
2.6 extra pair socks
5.8 extra shirt
2.0 Nylon Camp shoes
=====================================
38.9 oz

[Scott Bentz]

I carry the same stuff, just lighter:

GG Mariposa Plus 19 oz. (-18 oz)
WM Summerlite 32º 19 oz. (-16 oz)
GG The One 19 0z. (-23.0) I also use a Spinn Twinn at 9 oz. to save more
Torsolite Pad 10 oz. (-16 oz.)
Bearicade Weekender 31 oz (-13 oz.) Rented, not owned.

Right there I have saved 89 ozs. or 5.5 lbs. Of all the items you have I would first get a lighter bag, pad and canister. I like the Vapor Trail but there are lighter options out there.

There are other places like 6L water bladder? and some kitchen items. If you are hiking solo or cooking solo you can use lighter or smaller pots, etc.

On a short trip you won't notice the weight that much. On longer trips it gets multiplied due to the amount of food required to leave the trailhead. Most people can get a good first aid kit and toilitries together for about 10 oz.

Scott

[Laurence Beck]

Scott,

Thanks for the feedback. Ashley Simpson told me last spring that the Vapor Trail was a stepping stone pack. I guess she was absolutely correct. Now I just need to save my pennies!

Where do you rent the Bearikade cannister?

Larry

[John Davis]

Can be rented direct from the bearikade folks; just pick a size! :)

[Art …]

For those wanting to go as light as possible, Bearikade also makes the "Scout" model. Its in their pdf brochure but not shown on their web page. It is basically the Weekender model but 2 inches shorter.

Scout – 1.75lb – 8in(ht) x 9in(dia) – $195
Weekender 1.90lb – 10in(ht) x 9in(dia) – $225

They rent the weekender, not sure about the Scout.

I can squeeze 5 days of solo food into mine if I'm very careful what I bring.

[Backpack Jack]

You might also look at the Bare Boxer bear cannister it is half the size of the Garcia. I have both and since I got the Bare Boxer I have not used my Garcia. The Bare Boxer is the same shape just smaller. Type in Bare Boxer on the web and you should be able to find it. If I'm carefull what I pack I can get aprox 3-4 days for 2 guys, and I mean very carefull! Good luck

[Scott Bentz]

The Bearicade can be found at: http://www.wild-ideas.net/. Remember you can rent them.

We used the weekender and found it barely adequate for 7 days (I know, it's called a weekender and that's a long weekend). You really need to pack well to get 7 days in there. When I say barely adequate I mean we also hung for a day to get by on our JMT this summer. The scout would be great for 4 day trips.

As far as the Vapor Trail, I definitely would start with the other gear such as sleeping bag and shelter. There was quite a bit of weight to save there.

Scott

[Laurence Beck]

I must be eating light on the trail because I got 9 days of food in my Garcia. The Garcia is only 614 cu in while the Bearikade Weekender is 650 cu in (and it weighs 13 oz less than the Garcia).

[Backpack Jack]

When I use my Garcia I can get enough food for two guys 6-7 days.

[backpackerchick]

Food 2 oatmeal, 1 Cliff Bar, 1 tuna creation, 1 MH Entrée, 2 coffees

This does sound light unless that is one ENORMOUS tuna creation!

[John Davis]

mountain house at 300 probably…. not enuff…. eat more, you'll waste away!!

[CW]

Food

2 oatmeal – 300 cals est
1 Cliff Bar – 260 cals est.
1 tuna creation – 300 est (assuming you mean a StarKist Tuna Creation foil pack)
1 MH Entrée – highest caloric pro pack – 560 cals
2 coffees – if black, negligible calories

Total around 1420 calories. That's less than half what I eat daily in urban life and I'm only 145 lbs. Granted I get intense exercise 6ish days a week so I may not be a fair comparison. Still, on 1400 cals a day I wouldn't have the energy to walk far and I'd suffer from severe hunger pains all day. Definitely not how I'd want to spend several days in the woods.

[Laurence Beck]

Chris and Hartleyf,

Your math is correct. The funny thing is that I never feel hungry on a trip. I even find that I have to choke down the cliff bar at lunch. I am 6ft tall and I weigh about 195 lbs so you would think I would be passing out on the trail. Maybe I should change up the diet so it would be more interesting.

Larry

[Unknown abc]

"16oz/day"

dude… I'm 14yrs. old and I eat 20oz. a day when I'm out i nthe wild =p

also I would agree that you need more calories, at least 2000+ for a long day of hiking.

cheers

[Greg Mihalik]

Larry,
How many consecutive days have you been out at 1400 calories per day? How many miles per day?

I can understand 3, maybe 4, days at 15 miles/day, but any more days that that seems pretty amazing.

Even at far fewer miles I would be at a standstill.

[W I S N E R !]

Interesting…
I'm a big guy (6'2" 205) but I find myself eating very little when I backpack, much less than at home.
I've totaled up some trail days I've done and find I often eat 2000 calories if I'm lucky. Most general guidelines state that for my size/activity level I should be eating 3000.
But somehow it works. I've done the JMT as well as and many 50k consecutive days and I feel fine; it's not that I'm able to get away with it for only a day.
I find I just have no appetite in the mountains.
But it works for me…less to carry.

[Greg Mihalik]

Craig,
This really intrigues me. The science side says somethings has got to give. Input, output, basal metabolism, and all that. The reality side seems to say something different.

Looking at the numbers, if you are doing 50k a day it would seem like 5000 calories expended is not unreasonable. Assuming 2500 basal metabolism says you are 2500 short.

Are you loosing weight across the 10 to 15 days that sort of accounts for this difference? I wasn't interested in eating on an 11 day JMT and unintentionally lost a bunch of weight – roughly the difference between input and output.

I'm not doubting your numbers, just wondering what the explanation is. Mike C! echos similar observations [edit: about needing fewer calories than we would estimate], but doesn't have access to end of course weight loss numbers. Any insights?

Thanks.

[backpackerchick]

beckla:
Note, I didn't say it wasn't enough only that no wonder it seemed light in weight. For all we know you could be consuming a fair number of calories. We don't know what is in your TUNA SURPRISE — this sounds like something one could really pack some fat and protein into. (I take it this version isn't full of mayo, though.) Sounds like it works for you. My comment wasn't meant to be a judgement of your diet. Sometimes when I exert myself for days at a time especially at altitude, I have a light appetite. Maybe this is due to adrenaline. Who knows. Then when I get home, I EAT! BTW, have you tried Probars?

In the case of the 14 year old boy, hardly a shocker. Sedentary 14 year old boys often go through a seemingly enormous quantity of food. You are fueling a growing body and taking on some serious activity. Good on you for being so into this at 14! :)

In terms of metabolism, something will "give"…eventually. I would be interested in whether you have done any month long trips and whether your caloric needs have changed. On average, one needs roughly a 4000 calorie deficit to lose a 1lb of fat. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you maintain good condition for several days on your diet.

Efficiency of movement enters into the equation as well! Some people on the trail walk like elephants. Some move like gazelles.

Just a side note: An increasing body of research suggests that those who consume fewer calories, generate less free radicals and live longer. (I realize there are confounding factors — ie. they would be less likely to be overweight!)

[CW]

I also share a lighter than would seem normal appetite when on the trail. I usually eat equal to what I eat in town despite covering 15-20 mile days over up to 5 day periods. With that in mind, I also always hit up a nice big meal on the way home (2-3k cals) and am always light when I weigh in upon getting home. It usually stabilizes back to normal after a few days back in town. With that said, I'm sure if I were to do a thru-hike my initially suppressed appetite would go through the roof.

[backpackerchick]

If this isn't too personal (I'm not the interrogating, trash talking, bolt cutting type), how long have you used this tent? What do you think? Can you compare it to similar tents you've used or played with?

[Brad Rogers]

I am not the OP, but I do have a SL1 that I have over 100 nights in. I used it as my main tent from the Spring of 2006 until I started using the Gossamer Gear SpinnShelter in June of 2009. I have used it in heavy rains, storms, high winds in Grayson Highlands, and been caught in a snowstorm that had high winds and dumped 10" of snow on me. It always preformed great and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a lightweight double walled tent. On a side note, it is also quite roomy inside. I have some pics of it in my webshots. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2431253120086983979hwxqhX

[Laurence Beck]

I don't take offense to comments about my food intake. I am one of those kind of people who can eat the same thing every day for days. The longest I have been out with this kind of diet is 12 days doing approx 15 miles per day. This was also doing a portion of the JMT. I actually tend to lose weight on the trail but I always seem to find it within a month after the trip. I do enjoy that huge greasy burger or pizza with beer after the trip as well.

My BA SL1? I love this tent. I have had this tent for 3 years and I really love it. It is simple to set up, it is almost completely freestanding, it weighs about 2 lbs 10oz, and it stands up to a good amount of rain.

I actually was caught in some pretty heavy rain this past August at Rae Lakes. It started coming down around 9pm and I laid there nice and dry in my tent praying that it would stop before morning… I got my wish because it stopped completely by 5:30am. I know my tent is not as light as a tarp tent but it makes up for it by being so easy to setup.

[Laurence Beck]

Brad,

Cool shots. Did you setup the SL1 right on the snow or are you using a footprint of some sort? I have never used mine in the snow.

[Hikin’ Jim]

> 42.7 Big Agnes SL1
26 Thermarest ProlitePlus Regular
35 REI Sahara 30 degF regular
44 Garcia Bear Canister

I'm noticing basically the things that others are noticing.
-The Thermarest ProlitePlus Regular (1.5" thick) could be replaced with (for example) a Thermarest Prolite Short (1.0" thick). I was at first hesitant to make the switch because I'm a side sleeper, but I've found that I sleep well unless I'm sleeping on a pretty hard surface (slab). Sleeping on softer ground really helps if you have a choice.
-Your Sahara 30F bag is a little heavy for a bag of that rating. I have a WM Summerlite 32F which is comparable but weighs half as much. The Summerlite, with it's full zip, is really nice because I can open it up and use it as a quilt in warmer weather. It's a pretty versatile bag.
-Garcia, as noted, is a heavy canister. Bearikade is the nicest canister I have used and is much lighter and easier to pack. You can rent Bearikade canisters at many ranger stations in the Sierra, which elminates the shipping hassle. If you look at the Sierra Black Bear Inter-agency Group's map, it will show you not only where canisters are required but also where canisters can be rented in the Sierra. See http://www.sierrawildbear.gov/foodstorage/map082609.pdf
-The SL1 is a little different matter. It's not ultralight, but I actually like mine for Sierra trips because it gives me a mosquito free zone to change or hang out in. It's also really good in rainy wx.
In So Cal, where mosquitos are generally less of a problem and summer rain at night is fairly rare, I just take a bivy or tarp.
I wouldn't take the SL1 out in fresh snow or when snow is predicted. Fresh snow (i.e. powder) often will blow up under the fly and then sift down through the mesh. Big mess. Falling snow can cause a light tent like an SL1 to collapse. An SL1 is really a fair weather tent. I wouldn't hesitate to use an SL1t in cold but otherwise fair wx on old snow in So Cal where the weather is pretty predictable.

> 3.1 6L Water Tank
3.8 2 – 1 L water bottles

Eight liters capacity? Am I reading this correctly? That seems more like a desert hike than a typical hike in the Sierra Nevada. I normally take a 2L bladder with hydration tube and have an empty 3L bladder in my pack. There's water frequently enough in the Sierra that I seldom need to carry more than two liters at a time. I use the 3L bladder as a water carrier in camp. Note: I typically don't treat my water in the Sierra (depending on where I am), so I'm not constrained by chemical treatment times. I just fill and go and supplement by using my sierra cup from side streams as I hike. I can frequently go all day on one 2L bladder when I'm supplementing. Lest you think I'm crazy, there actually is a lot of research showing that the water in the Sierra is very clean and that the water from your tap at home actually has more giardia than Sierra water (not at a infectious level, but more than in the Sierra). I've been hiking with a sierra cup since the 60's and have never had any waterborne ailments.

> 5.8 Driducks Rain Jacket
9.5 MB Down Inner Parka (XL)
8.0 MB Down Inner Pants (XL)
3.3 Beanie/Glove Liners
2.6 extra pair uw
2.6 extra pair socks
5.8 extra shirt
2.0 Nylon Camp shoes

QUESTION: So, nothing water proof to cover the legs? Seems like you could get awfully wet and cold that way. I just bring a poncho which could also wind up getting me cold and wet, but at least it covers me to the knees.

And no long john top and bottom? Interesting. So do you just sleep with just uw on? Or with the MB inners? I usually sleep in long john top & bottom just to keep my skin away from my down bag.

[Laurence Beck]

Hi Jim,

I am looking at the WM Summerlite myself. It seems the perfect bag for summer backpacking. I normally sleep in uw unless it's under 30 deg then I sleep in the MB down inners.

I also have the Driducks pants but I have really never needed them in the Sierra's. The pants I hike in are synthetic so they dry fast. If there was a possibility of more rain then I would also take the pants.

The 6L water tank is only for holding water in camp while the Klear Water has time to purify. 6 liters is more than I need but I usually share the water in the morning. I only carry 2L when I hike.

I completely believe you regarding the water in the Sierra. I have taken many weeklong trips with no treatment whatsoever and no sickness. The Klear Water is just an easy way to provide insurance and it gives my hiking partners a sense of security. I usually put 1ml in 6L of water and let it sit overnight that way the 32oz bottle lasts forever.

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