Combined order for green cuben – Anybody want some?

[Derek Goffin]

Hi Matthew,
What a shame, I owe Colin A balance so If I pay you for both. He will owe me. A cheque in the post?
Roger was mentioning another charge which I assume was my share of the American delivery and postage. I dont know what that was.

[Matthew Dunn]

Hi Colin,
You're not wrong! Shipping in the UK will still be free thankfully.
Cheque is fine and saves on PayPal fees too or you can make a bank transfer if that's easier for you.
I think we still owe Roger for the American postage plus Lynne and I owe for the balance of the fabric cost too.
Looking forward to seeing your mid design, sounds pretty cool.

[Aaron Bybee]

Derek,
Thank you for the details on your new tarp. This walking pole and string is intriguing to me, as I do everything in my head, this could really help with visualization.
I especially liked the way the trekking poles are being used. When I looked at Tim's photobucket, it really got the gears turning in my head, as I have been trying to figure out a design to use my short length trekking poles right side up.
Your last paragraph sums up why I finally came up of hiding, though I am nowhere near using cuben. My initial designs will be created in soft tyvec, if I can manage to find the right one. I want them to be useable mockups. I have gained allot of starting knowledge from this community since I joined, I have just been too shy to post, as I have received bad treatment on other forums. This community is really a model of civility that the internet once had when it was in it's infancy.
-Aaron

[Lynne Thompson]

Hi Matt – I can make a (free) paypal payment for £26.66. but I need your email address for receipt of funds? PM? Trust this is OK. If not I will ask bank to make a transfer, although last time I tried it they wanted £10 to send £10 to India.

Hi Rog – what's the final cost for the cuben inclusive of any shortfall you face due to the (bungy jumping) dollar to pound rates. Thanks for everything!

I look forward to receiving it and realising more space in the great outdoors. Space is at a premium! I chucked out the TV recently (refusing to fund a £6m per annum chat show host and millionaire executive pensions)and as a result I've now found space at home!

Aaron – "This community is really a model of civility that the internet once had when it was in it's infancy."
I agree, I remember the Well, which attracted some great thinking and writing. Backpackinglight has much merit! So informative!

[Pedro Arvy]

The roll we received weighs 318 grams
Or 35 grams per linear meter
It is 1.39m wide
Thus it weighs 25 grams per square meter

Or 25/28.35 x 1/(1.09*1.09) = 0.74 oz per square yard

[Matthew Dunn]

Well fellow Brits,
Parcelfarce have lived up to their name and reputation once again and even though I've paid the duty a "glitch" meant it didn't get routed for delivery… I'm told it'll be Monday so fingers crossed.
Have a good weekend,
Matt

[Matthew Dunn]

Just a quick update;
Material received, cut (what a nightmare!) and distributed. I just need a final figure from Rog and his postal address so I can ship his material.
By the way, thanks to Tim for the open scissors trick, it worked a treat, shame I didn't have more space so I could lay out the complete roll as it would have made it so much easier.
If you're reading this Tim, do you have any tips on joining cuben? You seem to have worked with it a fair bit and your work speaks for it's self. Does, Aquaseal and 6-8 stitches per inch sound about right to you? Of course, anyone else's input is also gratefully received.
Matt

[Derek Goffin]

What is aquaseal? Is it available in Britain? I was looking at Steve Evans site http://www.suluk46.com. He was using loctite/ hysol U 09fl a urethane 2 part adhesive to bond cuben to cuben. I cannot find it in the UK but I have emailed locktite.uk about it.
Although expert people seem to sew and glue. I am tempted to think that sewing and glueing are so different that glueing alone or sewing alone might theoretically be better. I mean that under stress I would expect the glue to fail before the stitches came under stress and the glue would fail quicker because of the extra stress from the row of stitch holes. I cannot see that the glue adversely affects the stitches but it seems to me that if you must glue the time for stitching is past. This is theory only does anyone else agree?

As I was typing this my cuben arrived thanks Matthew and everyone!

[Matthew Dunn]

Glad it arrived safely especially with the post the way it is at the moment.
I've found Aquaseal online and I'm fairly sure I've seen it in outdoor shops. If you hear back from Loctite then let me know I'd be interested in what they say, I'd be mortified if my tarp came apart now I spent so much on the cuben.
Thanks for the sleuthing,
Matt

[Troy Ammons]

I found it at a dive shop.

I did some test strips.

Pretty much glues everything to everything.

Cuben to cuben, cuben to silnylon or any nylon,
Tyvek to tyvek.

The glue bond is stronger than any of the materials.

The only thing it did not stick well to was polycro.
It would stick to it and glue it, but under a hard strain would pull off.

From what I understand its the same thing as the locktight stuff you mentioned.

That said, it is really too thick IMO to work with easily. Its very thick. Needs to be about the consitancy of regular glue.

Takes about 8 hours to dry.

Very tough stuff.

If anybody knows where to find a thinner glue that is the same material, please let me know.

[Matthew Dunn]

From reading the instructions it sounds like you can use acetone (nail varnish remover) or 99% isopropyl alcohol to thin it. It's possible thinning it would change the curing time but it's worth a go.

[Troy Ammons]

I thought about thinning it. Iso alcohol would be better.

Acetone would probably damage plastics, coatings, and probably sil.

[Tim Marshall]

i haven't used any glue on it yet. I sewed with long stitches (longest my machine makes) and then used the mylar tape from quest over the seams. However the fabric is very tough and i am not sure the stitching needs reinforcing, other than regular seam sealing. I can't be sure of this but it is my suspicion.

-Tim

[Matthew Dunn]

Thanks for sharing your experience Tim, I think I'll glue it anyway for my own peace of mind, belt and braces and all that : O )

[Jim Colten]

Gluing cuben fiber and other things …

regarding gluing plus stitching:
Jon at Cuben Tech said that adhesives work well with their products under shear stress but not peel stress. Jon suggested the combo of gluing plus stiching with a long stitch length (5-6 per inch … 2-2.5 per cm).

I've had similar experience with peel stress on a different material (silnylon) with a different adhesive (GE Silicon Sealant II) and have good success mitigating that problem

regarding AquaSeal with polycryo: I did a little test using AquaSeal to bond polycryo to fabric (uncoated nylon) with the nylon sandwiched between polycryo layers like this:

The polycryo contacts the nylon along a 1/2 inch (1.25 cm) strip and glue joint was 3 inches (7.5 cm) long. The joint failed before either material did but it took a pretty good tug before it failed. I don't have anything quantitative on that but I feel that joint might work for things like joining a polycryo bivy bottom to a fabric top.

regarding loctite/ hysol U 09fl a urethane 2 part adhesive:
I have not used it but did look into it and have seen it in it's tube(s). Comes in a double barreled syringe much like two part epoxy you can buy at a hardware store … except that the syringe is built to be used in a gun with a mixing nozzle and does not include the shafts you'd press on to eject the two parts. Product doc says that it has 10 minute open time. I was put off by the combo of needing to buy a gun ($$$) (or try to make something) and the relatively short open time(which I felt was too short for me working alone to eject, mix and apply to a long seam).

regarding AquaSeal: It is a one part adhesive and has a much longer open time. A couple short seams I've tested failed easily with peel stress but not with shear stress. I need to come up with something quantitative on that. I have hopes for the above mentioned sandwich joint.

there is also double sided tape: $$$$ though and I have not tried any.

[Steven Evans]

I use the hysoU-09FL and the 0.33 material will fail before the bond – I haven't tested the heavier weight so I can't comment on the stuff you guys bought. You can use the gun and mixing nozzle if you like, but I just push the stuff out with my fingers or a pen, mix it with a toothpick, and spread it with a paint brush.

Sub 2 oz Cuben Tarp

I made a video of it if you're interested.

[Troy Ammons]

I tried the cuben tape from quest and did not like it.

[Derek Goffin]

If you watch steve's video you can see hysol U 09fl is quite runny not at all thick. Steve Have you tried any peel test?

[Lynne Thompson]

Matt, Roger, I've just taken delivery of the cuben, many, many, many thanks. I'm delighted! Definitely a gold tan with shine.

[Matthew Dunn]

I've done a bit of surfing and it seems as though Aquaseal is called Aquasure in the UK and widely available; it's about £7 for a 28 gram tube including delivery. I've taken the plunge and bought some so I'll let you know how I get on.

[Graham Williams]

You'd be better off using Seamgrip than Aquaseal. Aquaseal has a relatively crappy response to sheer.

You can thin either Seamgrip or Aquaseal with Cotol-240. Acetone won't really work.

You can also use another McNett product, UV-Aquaseal for emergency repairs. It only works when it's dry, and it cures in 10 seconds in sunlight, but it's the best for quick repairs.

I suspect they recommend a combination of sewing and gluing because I do. It's just a lot easier, cheaper and faster than any other method to make complex shapes. But sewing alone is a recipe for disaster.

[Graham Williams]

The whole point of the Hysol guns is that they mix it for you. So you lay down the bead, bond the material and it's done.

[Colleen Clemens]

Whoa, I go AWOL for a year or so and look what I miss. Is there any excess or is the whole order wrapped up and sold off?

[Tim Marshall]

if you contact cubic tech they may still have some. They did a few weeks back, i took 9m of it.

-Tim

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