Lowering a pack using rope

[John Beisner]

For the 1st time ever we need to carry some rope with us on a trip to New Zealand. The ONLY purpose this rope will be used for is to lower 2 packs (one at a time — grin) a maximum of 20 feet so we could then down-clamber a tricky spot where otherwise the pack might throw off our balance or just get in the way.

Given the above, I'm looking for the lightest-weight rope that will do the trick.

I'm assuming you thread the rope through the pack's haul-loop, and then tie a knot on the loose ends. Then the pack is lowered down, and the knot is untied to repeat a 2nd time…

Max pack weight is 30-35 lbs.

What rope should I carry?

How many feet?

What type of knot do I tie at the top?

Thanks in advance…

[Fred eric]

Had to do that once, we were in Iceland Hornstrandir , using a path that can only be used a low tide, seeing the beach where we should arrive, i started fishing.
We started again 2h later to discover it wasnt that easy to finish.
We decided to try it it was a mix of scrambling / going in water chest height, and we used "rope" a few times to pass the packs between us.

I used 2mm ( 2,4g /m) Beal cordelette the nominal strength is 70dan thats plenty enough for that.

[Greg Mihalik]

Just did this to drop over a cornice –

Almost any cord you have is strong enough. The issue is how to hold onto it. I used a 2.5mm from my shelter setup, wrapped around my butt, belay style. If I had had to haul my pack back up (less than 25#) it would have been a real struggle.

My pack has a top pocket in addition to two cross-straps to compress the collar – 7 attachment points in all. I looped under all of them and tied a bowline. Again, if I had had to haul it back up, I wanted things secure.

A 20' drop, plus 1' to tie, plus 3' to your butt, plus 3' to wrap – sounds like 30' to me.

Also, depending on the angle of the drop, a line from the bottom might be useful to guide the pack down, or at least keep it from hanging up, tumbling, and repeating.

[John Beisner]

First, I hadn't thought of hauling a pack up. D'oh! Just as conceivable I suppose, although from a balance p.o.v. I think I'd be more likely to climb/clamber with the pack on than descend.

And I hadn't considered angles at all. Good points.

Wouldn't I need more like 50 feet of rope, since I'll need to re-use the rope to lower a 2nd pack? And, unless you know of some magic Elvish rope that'll come off when I shake on it, that means doubling the length & looping through the pack rather than tying on, right?

Would 50 feet of Triptease be appropriate? It's light & strong…

[Greg Mihalik]

John,
Is someone downclimbing first?
If so, they are the elf.
If not, yep, more rope.

[John Beisner]

Double-D'oh!

Thanks Greg for not too obviously pointing out that I had, um, kinda missed the obvious.

So…Triptease OK you think?

I've got various AirCore stuff, but I can imagine slicing up the hands pretty good with that stuff. And I won't exactly be carrying any heavy work gloves…

[Greg Mihalik]

It's your call.
Climb up on the roof……

[David Loome]

I've used a rope for similar situations in Grand Canyon and on sections of the Hayduke Trail. I use a @30' piece of 1" nylon webbing. I tie one end into a small loop about big enough to stick your hand through, then pass the other end through it to make sort of a noose.

I always cut the haul loop off my packs, so I pass it through both shoulder straps, cinch it up, and lower away.

Not sure how much it weighs, not much though, and packs up smaller than rope. I've lowered my pack weighing up to 35 pounds and it was fine, could probably handle more without issue.

[YAMABUSHI !]

agreed (4 months late) but

for sure webbing is handy…obviously weighs more but i sure do enjoy having it when the need arises…

went for an early spring hike a while back and found ourselves confronted with bulletproof ice & short cliffs and 0 count em Z-E-R-O traction devices…

nothing kahtoolas couldnt tackle but with no other options
that 40' of 3/4 inch webbing seemed heaven sent!

[Roger Caffin]

> I've got various AirCore stuff, but I can imagine slicing up the hands pretty good
> with that stuff.
Yep, that's the issue. I have 1 mm Dacron kite-line rated at 150 lb. Strong enough, but could I hold it? No way.

I carry 20 m (60') of 4 mm cordlette. Fits in a little sack my hand, but I can haul on it, top rope with it, and I can slither on it too. Oh yes – many times!

Cheers

[Roger Homrich]

I usually carry some Triptease for my tarp, and I find that it works fairly well for this task. As it has been mentioned… the diameter is rather skinny, so you need good technique or the rope cuts into your hand or slips through your grip… especially with a heavier pack.

[John Brochu]

If you carry any mini biners as part of your standard kit, provided they were strong enough for your intended use*, you could get away with a thinner diameter line by utilizing a friction hitch like the Munter.

*Do not trust a non-rated biner for anything that might risk injury or death such as some of the applications Roger is using his 4mm cord for

[Roger Caffin]

> *Do not trust a non-rated biner for anything that might risk injury or death such
> as some of the applications Roger is using his 4mm cord for

Totally agree! When I carry a carabiner, it's a full rated climbing one, albeit light-weight aluminium. Ditto any other abseil gear.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

"I'm assuming you thread the rope through the pack's haul-loop, and then tie a knot on the loose ends. Then the pack is lowered down, and the knot is untied to repeat a 2nd time…"

That will eventually wear out the haul loop. Also, the friction impedes the flow of the rope through the haul loop, more a concern when raising the pack than lowering it. I think a better approach is to clip a carabiner through the haul loop and use it as a pulley. This facilitates control both lowering and raising a pack, and confers a 2:1 mechanical advantage when raising(minus some coefficient of friction) a pack. A noticeable difference with a heavier pack.

[John Brochu]

>>>That will eventually wear out the haul loop. Also, the friction impedes the flow of the rope through the haul loop, more a concern when raising the pack than lowering it. I think a better approach is to clip a carabiner through the haul loop and use it as a pulley. This facilitates control both lowering and raising a pack, and confers a 2:1 mechanical advantage when raising(minus some coefficient of friction) a pack. A noticeable difference with a heavier pack.<<<

If you do it that way, then don't you need twice as much rope as the longest pitch you need to lower, plus a little extra for the two knots?

What I would do is bring a biner, 25' of cord, and then use one of my tarp guylines.

Take a tarp guyline and sling a tree or tie it around a rock or whatever you're anchoring to, clip the biner to that, take the 25' rope and tie a loop in the end then girth hitch the haul loop of the pack using that loop, tie the rope to the biner with a munter hitch, then lower away… Maybe tie the end of the 25' section to something for backup in case you misjudge the distance.

Better test different diameter rope with your expected pack weights before hand. I'm not sure how much weight you can handle for a given diameter of cord.

Edit: This method assumes you have trees,sturdy shrubs, or heavy rocks with cracks in between them close to the edge of the cliff that you can use to anchor with.

[David Chenault]

When hauling a pack, stretch in the line is not desirable. For any hauls of consequence (read: anytime you'd really "need" to do it) I use nothing short of 4mm cord. Webbing is probably best. 3/4" tubular will be fine.

[Anonymous]

"If you do it that way, then don't you need twice as much rope as the longest pitch you need to lower, plus a little extra for the two knots?"

Correct, John, and your technique would suffice if you were really going for the lightest weight solution. But if I were moving over terrain where 20-25 foot pack lowering was part of the scenario, I would probably pack something that would bear human weight as well, something along the lines of what Roger mentioned.

[Anonymous]

"For any hauls of consequence (read: anytime you'd really "need" to do it) I use nothing short of 4mm cord."

+1 We did it with climbing ropes back in the day, with a variant of the carabiner/haul loop for crevasse rescue situations. Carabiner clipped to haul loop clipped to a sling clipped to a carabiner clipped to a D-ring on your pack shoulder strap. If you go in the hole, unclip the carabiner from the D-ring, clip it to the rope in front of your seat harness, get out of your pack and let it dangle below you; slip into your Texas sling, ascenders, or whatever, and start up the rope with ~ 2:1 advantage for hauling your pack. In a UL environment, though, 4 mm Kern Mantle seems adequate to me, even if it does stretch a bit with heavier loads.

[YAMABUSHI !]

Slither on Brother!!!

It was easliy one of the funniest treks ive been on

one buddy walking R2D2 style for fear of re-breaking a mending shoulder, another buddy reduced to crawling after loosing both, count em 2 contacts, our japanese friend just butt sliding easy sections…

looking so gumby we might as well have been painted green

how the roosters doing?
Its been forever since ive seen a game

[Anonymous]

"Slither on Brother!!!

"It was easliy one of the funniest treks ive been on

one buddy walking R2D2 style for fear of re-breaking a mending shoulder, another buddy reduced to crawling after loosing both, count em 2 contacts, our japanese friend just butt sliding easy sections…

looking so gumby we might as well have been painted green"

I don't know what you've been smokin' but that must be some baaaad weed, brother. ;}

[Chad Miller]

During winter backpacking trips I use a pulk sled (up to 55 pounds) and frequently use a rope to lower the sled down steep cliffs.

I use 6mm cord combined with a lightweight wire gate carabineer and lower the sled using a munter hitch. I find the 6mm cord to be great for tying up the center of my pyramid tarp when I'm in cap.

I hope this was helpful.

[Steve S]

I am a bit confused as to why you needed to actually lower the pack. If you yourself are downclimbing the section, it should be just as easy to climb down with it? That is in fact the whole purpose in the style and types of "internal" or frameless packs we now use. As a climber, we climb, both up and down tremendously difficult sections regularly with packs. Its not always fun or easy, but very very doable.
If I had to actually lower something, I'd probably do as most have recommended, and that is to lower with a small diameter cord, using a munter or other type of friction technique. I'd add one other item, and that is I would lower the pack down while one climber is either at sections that are tough to get the pack thru, as to help it not get hung up, and then continue to lower and climb down at the same time. As for the effort, IMO its pretty much always easier physcially, and take less time to just climb down and be done with it. And with all things, practice will help make it easier and quicker.
Sounds like a cool adventure either way! :)

[Roger Caffin]

We lower the pack or pack-haul for several reasons.
* Hard to wear a pack in a chimney or tight corner.
* Going to descend with some sort of slither or abseil.
* Overhangs are a bit hard with a pack on.

It really can be tricky sometimes:

(This was unroped.)

Cheers

[Steve S]

With this pic, I would have to say that once you pass 3rd class terrain, and in this pic, youv'e moved into the realm of 5th class, hard to really incorporate this into a "backpacking" technique, or route…
Pretty extreme for sure. I've climbed with a pack up into the 5.10 range, and in winter, vertical ice, and its never any fun. Well, its fun, just a different kind of fun! :) But if I knew I was going to be involved past 4th class scrambling, then the equipment would change as well. I would have a harness if I knew I had to abseil, and then I would also be able to attach my pack to the harness and let it hang underneath out of the way as I downclimbed.
I think this is moving past the context of just "lowering" a pack down a steep section.

[Chad Miller]

Steve the difference between you and I climbing with a pack and a backpacker doing the same is we have a harness and rope, backpackers don't.

I'm sure you'll now say that you've done a 5.10d climb 300 feet above the deck with your 60 pound external frame pack on but . . . . you're a climber with the skill to do it. You're not a backpacker who may have never done technical rock climbing. :)

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