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Quilts, quilts, quilts
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Aug 13, 2009 at 6:24 pm #1520727
"Maybe like these lynn?
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/ProductFinder/Bag/filters/5"
No, like these:
Bottom of POD-there is NO down on the bottom, just a pad attachment
Top of POD 15-with winter extras
Top of POD 30-with summer extras
Aug 13, 2009 at 6:27 pm #1520728Lynn: "I have never (since my first down bag in the 70s) owned a bag that has more down on one side than the other, so it's a moot point to me. A continuous baffled bag is identical to a quilt, but with a hood and zipper added."
You're suggesting that virtually all bags have just as much down in the bottom as the top? My North Face Kilo bag certainly isn't this way. The top of the bag is about 2x as thick as the bottom. I can't speak for all bags, but several bags I've looked at are like this.
Lynn: "All my bags have had round footboxes-they fit the same no matter how you position the bag. Are you suggesting there are bags out there where the footboxes are wider than they are tall?"
Yes, I'm suggesting that some tight fitting mummy bags have footboxes that are wider than they are tall. I'm also suggesting that footboxes have more insulation on the top than the sides. So by using the bag sideways you re-position the bulk of the insulation from the top to the side of your feet.
Aug 13, 2009 at 6:32 pm #1520729"You're suggesting that virtually all bags have just as much down in the bottom as the top? My North Face Kilo bag certainly isn't this way."
Then that's a pretty strong argument to not get that bag if you want the flexibility of a quilt.
"Yes, I'm suggesting that some tight fitting mummy bags have footboxes that are wider than they are tall. I'm also suggesting that footboxes have more insulation on the top than the sides. So by using the bag sideways you re-position the bulk of the insulation from the top to the side of your feet."
Again, that would be a poor bag choice rather than an argument that a quilt is easier to use than a bag. These forums are first and foremost about education, and these are things that a restless sleeper should take into account when choosing a sleep system. WM makes many superb bags that have continuous baffles and symetrical footboxes that make them ideal to use as quilts. IMHO they make BETTER quilts because they are wider thus less likely to get drafts around the edged when left unzipped.
Aug 13, 2009 at 6:38 pm #1520731"Do you think the Alpinist will be more faithful to rating than the GoLite?"
Yes, at least the previous GoLite ultras. The new Ultra 20 may be a better bag, dunno.
Aug 13, 2009 at 8:21 pm #1520755Hey Lynn,
I'm interested in how you use your POD bag. I note you have a thin pad in the 'sleeve' at the back of the POD. Do you then use a thicker pad underneath this? Obviously you could attach a thicker pad inside the sleeve, but then isn't the POD effectively strapped to the pad, limiting your ability to move around?
When sleeping in my sleeping bag I don't always lie completely straight, sometimes I turn on my side and pull my legs up a big in a semi-foetal position. I turn inside the bag rather than having it turn with me. The bag bends at my knees and hips and this works fine. Can you do this with the pod? It would seem to me that having a pad strapped to it would mean that you are limited to sleeping on your back fairly straight… but I'd be interested to hear if it works in other positions too.
Cheers, A
ps. does the POD have a zipper? If not, how do you vent and what method do you use for getting in and out?
Aug 13, 2009 at 8:28 pm #1520759I found this POD review on trailspace which raises some of these issues. How do you get around them?
Another compromise is the half length zipper. It's too short to ventilate adequately in the warm temperatures for which the bag is best suited. Also, the zipper separates at the end, even though it is not a two-way zipper. Consequently, it comes undone anytime you exit the bag and is difficult to reconnect in the dark with sleepy hands. I intend to sew my zipper so it can't disconnect.
Also, the system of flaps and drawstrings intended to secure the bag to the pad is cumbersome to use (particularly in a small tent or bivy sack). Worse, having the bag anchored to the pad dramatically restricts sleeping positions. I finally have given up attaching the bag to the pad, but this further exacerbates the cold spot problem.
Aug 14, 2009 at 9:42 am #1520859"Do you think the Alpinist will be more faithful to rating than the GoLite?"
I certainly hope so Lori as its maiden voyage (hike) is in northern CA at the end of September. I will have a down sweater along this time and carry a mid weight base layer instead of the lightweight set I often do just in case.
Aug 14, 2009 at 3:39 pm #1520941Ashley, the pad attachment system that the PODs ship with was probably the reason these bags never took off! I have modified it by adding velcro straps to the POD sleeves, and underside of any/all pads that we might use. This system is not cumbersome, and seals the bag much better along the length of the pad.
RE: zippers and ventilation- the POD 15 has a full length zipper, the POD 30 has a half zipper. Some folks might not like the half length zipper, but I have no problems with it. I figure the bag would gain ~15 grams/ 0.5 oz if I ever decided to add a full length zipper, so still well under a pound/half kilo all up.
RE: moving around and sitting up-what is not shown in the photos is that my main pad is a torso length Ridgerest. This is both short enough and flexible enough that sitting up is not a problem. My partner uses a full length DAM and can't sit up while attached to this pad. However, the pads are only attached to halfway down the bag, leaving the legs free to move around at will (my partner is a side-sleeper and has no problems curling up in a ball). This also allowed me to cut off the bottom half of the sleeve to shave some more weight from the system. NOTE: my partner now has a NeoAir, and the horizontal baffles on this pad allows sitting up much better than the vertical baffles of the old DAM. Time will tell if the NeoAir will be otherwise suitable as a DAM replacement….must await spring temps before trying it out in the field.
POD type bags (Macpac also make a similar, though less effectively designed bags) are about as far as you can get from quilt sleeping, so are really irrelevant to this discussion.
Aug 14, 2009 at 7:01 pm #1520987Thanks Lynn, very interesting. Pity they didn't manage to keep the line going as it sounds like they had potential once a few flaws were ironed out. I would probably want to add a full length zipper since I'm so particular about not overheating. I guess in the end a lot of people figured that the extra 100g (or less) for the summerlite with a full length zipper was worth it and so they didn't sell enough. It was probably a bit too 'weird' for a lot of people too. I'd give it a go, but probably not with the short zip.
Aug 14, 2009 at 10:23 pm #1521034Ashley, I find the POD 30 differs in at least two or three different ways that makes it more appealing (to me). Of course it is lighter, but it is also wider than the Summerlite, as well as being a little warmer by one or two degrees C. But yeah, the lack of full length zip did not do the POD 30 any favours, except for folks like me who don't have temperature regulation problems. The POD 15 is still a top-notch fully zippered -9 C bag which can be pushed much lower (thanks to it's width) with insulated layering. In fact, the POD 30 can be pushed pretty low with the layering I've shown, due mainly to it's wider width which allows ample layering. As you can see, to me the width of a sleep system has become my main determinant as to whether or not it will work for me over a large range of temps. Too narrow is not good for layering, no matter quilt, bag or top bag (POD). That's why I find *bags* such as the Summerlite/Ultralite etc..to be better for quilt use than the narrower zipperless quilts such as the JRB or Nunatak or GoLite. The wider the sleep system, the more flexible it is. As mentioned earlier, as nice four season bag such as the *Versa*lite can even double as a two person quilt in summer, making it extremely *versa*tile, all due to it's increased width.
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