Bay Area BPL Winter Camping Thread

[Tony Wong]

Ed,

My understanding and expectation is that we would snow shoe in (others would be welcome to cross crountry ski in).

Starting point would most likely be Bager Pass Ski/Snow Park and hike in about 4 miles to the site.

At the site, Crocker or Dewy Point, we would either pitch tents, dig snow caves/trenches, etc….really your choice.

I have a feeling that most people will be pitching tents/shelters vs. digging snow caves or trenches.

Depending on what time we arrive at the campsite, I am inclined to dig a trench and cover it with my ponchotarp to give me more practice at snow camping. (The only other winter camping that I have done was with the Sierra Club in 2007).

Anyway, hope that helps give you an idea of what to expect.

Ken…any thoughts on what the trip might entail?

-Tony

[Ken Helwig]

What the trip entails? Physically or where we are going?

Snowshoe trip that is around 4 miles. Dewey Point is the destination. Not to hard to do and the views are amazing!!

[Mark Regalia]

It's been awhile since I have done any snow camping. Do you guys figure on skiis or snowshoes? I'm a skier but not much experience on shoes.

Mark

[Tony Wong]

I plan on snowshoeing in….don't have cross country skis.

You certainly take your skis….just have your skins ready for the uphills.

When I went there 2 years ago, one of the instructors skied up without a problem.

-Tony

[David Lutz]

Snow camping sounds awesome, I'll "watch this thread"…..

[Ken Helwig]

I skied there a few years ago. The closest trail (there are two) from the TH is advanced and unfortunately that is what I took. The second trail to Dewey Point which is about a mile further down the road is much easier and labeled a beginners trail. I am snowshoeing in because I can walk better than cross country skiing

[Ken Helwig]

If this turns out to be like our BPL Bay Area trip with allot of people, we can go to Peter Grubb Hut. Not to stay there but we can camp in that valley. You start out at Boreal Ski Resort with a snow parking pass and the hike is 3-4 miles. Let's see what the turnout is. If it is heavy then we will need to switch places. Yosemite I think has quota's even in the winter. I will check into this

[Ken Thompson]

I would like to go.

[Jay Wilkerson]

Peter Grubs Hut —-What are the possible dates Ken? Sounds like a cool, short Winter hike…

[Ethan A.]

The STS Group (backcountry skiing) of the Sierra Club Loma Prieta Chapter in Palo Alto uses that hut and helps maintain it. It does add a margin of safety for any beginner winter campers, and the area is supposed to be very nice. http://www.sierraclub.org/outings/lodges/huts/grubb.asp

FYI if you are interested in short winter trips and winter routes also check out http://www.snowlands.org, founded by Marcus Libkind (author of books on Sierra backcountry ski routes). They'll have winter trips, post routes (with the aim of posting all routes in the area), maintaining trails and advocating for winter recreation.

[Kattt]

I'd like to go.

[Backpack Jack]

This will be my first winter backpacking trip what is the best snow shoe for the money? I'm 5'9" 200lbs and aprox. 25lbs in gear, size 11/12 shoe. What type of shoe or boot do you ware with snow shoes? I'm asking so I know what to buy or rent in my area. Thanks Jack

[David Lutz]

Jack – your post reminded me that I have an extra pair of snow shoes available to lend (too small for you, though). I think they will go up to about 200 lbs total.

[Ethan A.]

Jack, I'm 6 ft tall 185-190 lbs and use a 30 in. snowshoe – Northern Lites Backcountry Recon. I've also heard good things about the MSR Lightening Ascents, which are heavier, though haven't tried them. It also depends on snow conditions in your area – powder or harder snow? With harder snow one could get by with shorter snowshoes. At your weight I'd get a 30 in. model to cover all conditions.

Note that after a huge fresh +2.5 ft powder dump on top of lots of good recent snowfall in N Vermont I was sinking 1-2 feet in places and breaking trail was quite a workout even with 30 in. showshoes and a light pack.

I would also make sure you have good insulated boots (I use Keen Growlers which have 200 g thinsulate insulation and heel ridges to help catch snowshoe straps) and overboots for very cold conditions. The overboots are especially handy as the sun goes down and you slow your activity.

[Backpack Jack]

I own a few Danner boots with 600 thinsilate and some with 200 thinislate I was hoping I could use one of these boots in the snow shoe.

[Ethan A.]

You will be fine especially just for one evening and for such a short hike.

Reason my wife and I went with 200 Thinsulate Growlers instead of similar taller 400 Keen Thinsulte boots is the versatility – we can wear the 200 boots alone in milder conditions, and add overboots when we want to be warmer. I also like that the Growlers are a true hiking boot and not one of those mushy clunky urban winter boots with no support.

[Backpack Jack]

Thanks for everyones input, it helps a lot when you've never done anything like this before. I will take a look at the MSR ones I think they carry those at our local sports store, if not I can go to Fresno and rent them from REI.

[Tony Wong]

Jack,

My wife and I have the MSR Lightening Ascents…1 or 2 years old now in the 25" length.

(they did not have 30" ones originally)

They are great….have lots of grip on the edges due to the saw tooth design along the outer edge of the shoe frame.

Backpacker magazine a while back gave them the highest marks in a round up of various snow shoes.

If this helps you out in saving some money, the only difference between the men's and women's snow shoe is that the women's was 0.75 inch or maybe 0.25 of an inch narrower.

I picked up a pair for myself at a huge discount online and frankly, I don't think that there is a difference in performance because the women's is narrower.

I would suggest that you consider 30" as a min. for deep powder.

I am 142 lbs and 5'6" and kinda wish that I had 30" MSRs myself.

Good luck on your shopping.

-Tony

[Michael Skwarczek]

For Jack and anyone else excited about this as their first Winter/Snow trip: I just wanted to ease some of the burden , but none of the excitement, of this trip. Hopefully you won't have to rush out and spend $$$.

CAVEAT: I've only snow camped on the Western Sierras and further South, which, at its worst, I feel it's amateur.

So, with the best intentions, I hope this comes off OK…

IMHO:

As you know, it's about being warm and dry, learning and having a good time. This is a great beginners trip. Being only 4-5mi from the TH, there's an easy exit if mistakes are made and accidents happen. Keep in mind that it's Yosemite, the Western Sierras, (not Eastern) and less than 7600'. Which means we'll have typically predictable weather, good storm warnings, which most will heed, sunny warm days and nighttime temps above 15F. Typically. ::grin:: NOAA will have good reports for all this.

While some Four-Season and Expedition Winter gear is great, if you don't have them, don't worry, neither do I.

Feet:
Water proof, and roomy for extra socks if cold feet is an issue. Insulated is nice but really not key. VB is neat, but also not needed. Just be water proof. Insulated booties are nice at camp, but I didn't get a pair till last year.

Hands:
Shell Mitts are great. Bring 2-3 liner/inserts to swap and layer. Avoid mitts or gloves with built in lining/insulation, IMO. They get wet and then tacky and you can't get your hands/fingers inside… I'm never totally happy with my solutions for hands, but I'm convinced by shell mitts.

Bottoms:
Soft Shell is my favorite. It'll repel moisture and are highly windresistant, and may have insulation (I choose layering over insulation at all times). Wear a pair of med weight bottoms during the day. Bring another or heavier pair for night time. Insulated pants are great at night, but it really depends on your needs. I'm warm, myself. If you can't/don't have soft shell, just make sure it's a synthetic bottom and have a shell handy.

Tops:
I wear one or two base layer merino wool tops while moving. I keep a wind shell ready, and bring a rain shell in case. I also bring a, lets say, medium-warmth down jacket: Montbell AlpineLite. Once again, this is up to individual needs, but I feel like the trip doesn't require much.

Head:
The hood from your wind jacket and a warm hat is fine. I bring a balaclava, and my base layer merino is hooded, not an insulated hood.

Sun Protection:
Sun block and sunglasses are key. Lipbalm too.

Cooking/Water:
Canister or White Fuel will be good. Just be careful of your stove sinking in the snow that melts under it. Ti plate helps, I made a Reflectex base and lined one side with over-liner. Alky just won't cut it for melting snow and may have issues at 15F anyway. Buddy up with someone for melting/cooking. Or just say yer "no-cook" and mooch. I usually do with Josh. SUL, BABY!!!!

Shelter:
I've gone just a TiGoat bivy, non-water proof, dug a grave for wind and been fine. I've gone Epic Bivy and Tarp and had to ditch in a storm to Josh's Nallo. I like a pyramid style floorless singlewall. You can use a 3-Season free standing. You can experiment and team-up with someone with a 2-3person in case you have trouble and need a backup plan. You'll be digging, so bring a good collapsible shovel, not those stupid plastic claw shovels.

Sleep:
Up to you, but I can get away with a 20F bag, a 1/8" Thinlight, Nightlight, and add another 1/2" blue foam if needed.

Sitting Around:
Someone with a tarp would be helpful in case there's weather. But I've only needed/wished for it a few times. Bring a foam sit pad, maybe from your pack frame, maybe from your sleep system, maybe just for sitting. And remember the shovel for digging a kitchen.

Snowshoes:
covered by others… Try renting MSR's. The shoes for rent at Badger (they have them) suck.

Misc:
Splurge on the weight of a double wall mug. Heck, a thermos! I never bring one, I always miss it.

Cable ties – I've repaired a broken snowshoe with em.

Warmers – I shouldn't caution against safety, but remember where we're going. I've never brought the stuff, I've been in the worst conditions Dewey has, e.g. freezing rain (first time out, all gloves wet, bare hands), and 4' of snow overnight. I was always OK. Just never mind I said these would be useless weight.

Tent Anchors – Again, ignore me, but don't bother with snow anchors. Bring 5-6" pieces of wood, the thickness of garden stakes. Really.

Bear Canister – hmm.. Never seen a bear or it's tracks up there. The ravens are more a threat, I feel. Don't know what to say about this. I don't think I bring one (why can't I remember)….Anyone? Bueller?

Here's "what may be construed as criminal activity" warning:
I like to build a fire if I can.
I don't think I bring a bear canister.
I dig a cat-hole (not to the ground, not 6" into frozen ground), not a wagbag, but use a snowcone to wipe.
I bring booze for warmth and conversation.
I bring a boombox, and shoot flares, and throw M80's, who cares. (i made a rhyme)

cheers all. looking forward to the snow.
-Michael

[David W.]

Good information above from Mike. I would not go out and spend a fortune on gear for this trip. Minus a severe winter storm, which I would assume would cause us to reschedule, most of your 3 season gear will do the trick.

[Backpack Jack]

Thanks for all the info. I just bought a Hilleberg Akto from a BPL member can't wait to try it out. I have a Marmot Pinnacle 15 degree down bag, Neo air size reg, some merino wool base layer, Golite Cumulus jacket, Sierra Designs rain jacket,smart wool socks, Danner boots 600 grams thinsilate, beenie. Still looking for pants, snow shoes, possum down gloves and socks, OH and of course some SNOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!! WOO HOOO!!!!!!

[Michael Skwarczek]

Jack, I'm callin' for an epic storm and you better be there.

[Ethan A.]

Anyone have any dates in mind? Only potential conflicts we have are a weekend at Claire Tappaan Lodge (which is only a few miles from Peter Grubb Cabin) Jan 30 and 31 and a Wilderness First Aid Course Feb 6 and 7.

[Ken Helwig]

Ok Feb. is going to be the snowcamping trip. Depending on the amount of folks going we have two options. Peter Grubb Hut just north of Hwy 80 near Truckee and the other option is Dewey Point in Yosemite. It all depends on the amount of folks going. I am not sure what Yosemite does in terms of quota's or if they even have them during the winter.

[Ethan A.]

Note that for anyone in the Bay Area seeking a good safe group intro to snow camping – the San Francisco Sierra Club has a Snowcamping Section – they do an orientation on January 9 in the Oakland/Berkeley area, then class time and then a 2 day trip. Participants who complete this can join them on any follow up trips. You need to sign up ASAP though as I think the deadline passed already.

http://sfbay.sierraclub.org/snowcamping/

My wife and I did a similar program through the Palo Alto chapter.

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