ULers Carrying an Extra 20-40 lbs – WHY?!

[Jack H.]

One thing that I've often thought about on the trail. Ultralighters tend to fall in to two categories… Very fit, experienced hikers. And overweight people who spend a lot of time on the internet. Ultralight is generally evidence that you read these forums and/or you have a lot of experience.

[cary bertoncini]

the more you have to learn.

weight, fitness, health is more complex than we think.

i've hiked, run, biked, kayaked thousands of miles – i've been at 4% body fat before. i've survived illnesses, accidents and attempted murder by poisoning – some due to fitness, some due to heart, and some (like all "success" in life) due to dumb luck. when it was easier to lose weight and stay fit, i was smug about my level of health, fitness, heart and toughness.

time, humility and compassion have taught me a lot about my earlier assumptions and smugness, and also not to judge others in these areas – walking a mile in another's shoes doesn't even begin to inform us.

there are actually 3 kinds of people in the world: those who are good at math, and those who are not.

[Lynn Tramper]

"the more you have to learn.

weight, fitness, health is more complex than we think.

i've hiked, run, biked, kayaked thousands of miles – i've been at 4% body fat before. i've survived illnesses, accidents and attempted murder by poisoning – some due to fitness, some due to heart, and some (like all "success" in life) due to dumb luck. when it was easier to lose weight and stay fit, i was smug about my level of health, fitness, heart and toughness.

time, humility and compassion have taught me a lot about my earlier assumptions and smugness, and also not to judge others in these areas – walking a mile in another's shoes doesn't even begin to inform us."

Amen Cary. I too used to diet down to low bodyfat levels for bodybuilding competitions. I have done martial arts all my life (from age eight). I used to be a very good rock climber and mountaineer, and I'm still as strong as an ox. I know what it takes to achieve fatloss and fitness goals, and am quite capable of hitting the goal. But most of us cannot maintain that kind of intensity and hunger for decades, especially in an environment of plenty and sedentray jobs, plus the injuries that life may throw at us along the way.

Also, please don't tell me that genetics don't matter. Women are fatter than men by genetic design, and post-menopause the metabolism gets even worse. So please don't gloat just because you happen to be young, male and full of testosterone by right of birth and genetics. And isn't it ironic that the majority of identical twins ultimately end up being the same bodyfat and weight??

Anyway, I don't have to justfiy my excess bodyfat as, thanks to UL, it doesn't stop me from getting out there and just doing what I enjoy most.

[Brad Groves]

First, I've posted before here about realizing that while I was fretting over fractions of ounces in my pack I had maybe 15 extra pounds around my middle. So to the OP, yeah, we need to lose weight from all places.

That said, a little story: Up until about five years ago I was living the life. Outside and playing every day. During the summer I'd kayak five days a week, bike 10 or 20 miles a day 3 or 4 times a week, walk/hike 2 to 4 miles every day. On top of that I took up body building. I don't generally beat my chest about this stuff, but it plays into the discussion here: I'd do bench press reps at 365#, max over 400. I'd curl reps at 85#. My rest phases between sets were as long as it took me to quickly grab the next set of weights. In the several years I was on this self-prescribed program I ran into perhaps two or three people who trained as intensely as I did in the gym. I was exceptionally particular about my diet. I knew how many calories I had eaten on any given day within about 50 calories, and I had the same approach with protein and fat intake. I ran a calorie defecit of at least 500 kcal a day for several years.

However, I still had a couple extra inches around my middle. My body fat percentage never dropped that far… around 12% at peak form. And my arms, though strong, were really no bigger than the sticks they were before or are now. I could never bulk up. I just looked more toned… but I could outlift many of the campus football players. It didn't matter how much I worked out, or how I ate… at a certain point I got no more returns. So yeah, genetics matter.

When I come across new diet or exercise plans and their inevitable testimonials it's easy to see how people could have so much success with the plans. They just needed to make a change to their lifestyle! So yeah, quit drinking a bunch of pop, eat healthy, eat fewer calories than you need each day, work out hard, and you'll get results. BUT… some of us will only get limited results. Some of us will plateau, no matter how hard we train or how much heart we have in it. That's the reality.

[Casey Bowden]

Brad,

Are you sure you ran a 500 kcal/day deficit for several years?

500 kcal/day x 2 years x 365 days/yr = 365,000 kcal

If you burn 3500 kcal to lose 1 pound of fat then you must have lost over 100 pounds (365,000 / 3500 = 104.3). If so, right on!

[Brad Groves]

Casey, I wouldn't go to court about it. That's my recollection. Or should I say "I don't recall" ?! My body weight only fluctuated about 15 pounds; I lost fat and gained muscle. My recollection of my diet, though, was that I did run that defecit for a matter of years. If that doesn't add up in calculations, it could be that the several different metabolic calculations were done on incorrect information. I've heard/read about people whose metabolisms were perpetually slower than they should be. Oh, and I did have one day a week where calories didn't count ;P Technique I picked up in some body building lit so the body didn't go into starvation mode, keep the body guessing. Of course, it is also possible that I was just wrong and that I only ran that defecit for a portion of those years, and tried to keep it at zero the rest of the time. I haven't been in the weight room since 2002! (Bad shoulder injury, and lost interest.)

[Lynn Tramper]

Calculating calorie deficits is just a very rough estimate. The real world deficit is determined by how much weight you actually lose. Either Brads calculations were off the mark, or more likely that continuous dieting killed his metabolism. This is the biggest reason for rebound weight gain when stopping a diet, and why long term "diets' just don't work for most folks. I certainly stuffed my metabolism with repeated rounds of crash dieting followed by "bulking". It's an insane way to live, consantly forcing yourself to eat less than your brain tells you you need to be happy.

[Diplomatic Mike]

Carrying extra weight is a nightmare if you can't burn it off. I've always been active, running, cycling etc, but an injury has forced a long lay off. I've put on about 15 pounds waiting for a surgical operation. Two steroid injections haven't helped with the weight gain.
I would never judge a person by their weight, as you don't know their circumstances.

[Brad Groves]

Jack, I'm always amazed at how black and white people view things. I'm in moderate shape, as I've said maybe 15 pounds overweight, relatively fit and able to do anything I wish, including hopping into a canoe and paddling 120 miles in two days. I have decades of experience outdoors. But I'm not "very" fit. I do have a bit of a beer belly. Funny, eh? I'd say your last sentence captures it best… "Ultralight is generally evidence that you read these forum…" IE, it's not limited to fitness vs. chub.

[Jason Smith]

Your body can also decide to burn muscle instead of fat. I gained some weight during a period of time when I had to very intense with my job with the theroy that in the past when I needed to I would work hard and just lose the weight. Well, losing weight has not been that hard. The problem is while my weight has decresed my body fat percentange has only decresed very slowly. I have been sure to check that I am only losing weight slowly. I have started to lift more and watch when I eat and what type of calories I am taking in. But for me while not impossible getting into the shape I want is not as simple as reduce calories And more cardio.

[Bill Poett]

Wow

I love people and I love nature. I am a sports fitness specialist and CPT with licences throught the National Academy of Sports Medicine. 47 years old, broken back, shattered elbow and pins in one ankle twenty five years of martial arts and playing hard . I regulary do 50 mile weekend UL trips and keep my body fat just under 10%. Sounds to me like you are all right. Specializing in physigue transformation programs for my clients I can tell you without a doubt, there is more to this than a simple calories in calories out formula. Genetics, personality, enviroment and cultural programing play huge roles in individuals ability to lose weight. But there is also truth in the concentration camp analogy, I don't remember seeing any "fat" people in those pictures. How bout investing an equal amount of time and energy in learning how to maintain a strong healthy, functional body for as long as we can so we can be doing these trips in our 90's as we spend reading technique, tips, and gear reviews.

Just my 2 cents.

PS if I ever meet you on the trail I'll be looking forward to finding a kindred spirit what ever your size ;0)

[Lynn Tramper]

"But there is also truth in the concentration camp analogy, I don't remember seeing any "fat" people in those pictures."

Yeah, but look at what happened to them when they got out of the camps. They had lost all their fat AND muscle, and thier bodies screamed to eat to excess.Yes, If we actually lock people up in concentration camps, and deprive them off food, everyone will lose weight. Do it long enough, and they will starve to death But, what the starvation studies seem to show is that the minute the survivors leave the concentration camp, they will be very fixated on food, their metabolism is low, and they will gain weight. The defects in metabolism are often permanent. The brain gets re-wired post-starvation.

The situation for the dieter is somewhat analogous to the concentration camp victim who, for some reason, wishes to keep their weight low.

It’s the body’s reaction to starvation that makes it more difficult to lose weight than one might otherwise think.

[Brian Lewis]

I had the privilege of meeting and talking for a while with two trail legends on the PCT last year, Scott Williamson ("Yo Yo") and Tatoo Joe. Scott looks — and is — the sort of poster guy for long distance hiking, he looks like someone who can do the things he does.

My understanding is that Tatoo Joe, however, starts out on a long trail carrying a fair bit of (body) weight. I met them in Oregon so he had lost quite a bit by then I think, but those two were doing really big miles all the way (set a new record together last year), hanging together and having a good time at it.

So now I'm less tempted to judge someone's abilities based on body mass index or anything like that. Different genetics or lifestyle or whatever, one great thing about backpacking is that a person can start in less-than-perfect shape and just walk themselves into better condition on a long journey.

Good thing, as all the substantial pounds I lost on the trail last year I gained back over the winter. Multiple back-to-back upcoming trips will hopefully take some of them off again!

[Brian UL]

Though some people say that they train and eat well and still were unable to loss weight- I would simply say that the diet and exercise program was ineffective and I would blame that long before I started blaming genetics.
its a common misunderstanding but WHAT your body does with the calories you eat is more important than simple numbers.
if your insulin is high you will resist using fat stores and will also store carbs as fat. All calories are not equal. then their is the issue of chemicals in the food, both "natural' and artificial. These can mess with hormones and block the absorption of nutrient.
Why? I would answer both the obvious not enough time not enough motivation. Second, too much miss information about what a healthy diet actually looks like.

[CW]

I try to avoid these threads usually because everything is so subjective but..

First, there's a difference between being "in shape" and looking "in shape". When I did WT3 last year I was around 175 lbs (I'm 5'8) I believe. I had a decent gut on me and was soft all over, but I was in great shape for backpacking and mountain biking. I spent the majority of the year mountain biking at least twice a week and doing backpacking trips 2-3 weekends every month. Some of these overnight trips covered close to 40 miles.

5 years ago I was 211 lbs and near a 40" pant. To get down to 175 mostly required cutting calories down to about 1800 (probably coming from 3-4k) and adding in a small amount of exercise. Once my body adjusted to the low cal intake I gradually increased back up to around 2500.

End of last year I went to the gym for a month or so and had started cutting cals again. I was able to drop another 10 lbs this way and got down to 165. I still had a decent gut on me but was down to a 34" pant.

Jan 11 I started p90x at 163 lbs, 35" actual waist, and around 15% fat. This required upping my exercise to 1-1.5 hours a day for 6-7 days a week. I had also started running again some. My calorie level per the program was set at 2400 which wasn't an issue for me since I had been effectively dieting for years at this point. 90 days later I had lost around 13 lbs, 4.5 inches off my waist, and was down to around 8.5% fat. I also had a lot of other positive results but those are the relative ones.

Since then I did another 90 days and am steady around 145 lbs and 5-6% fat. That last bit of gut I couldn't seem to get rid of is gone. I'm also eating like a horse but finding it somewhat hard to eat enough for fear of getting fat again. Anyway, the result is I now look in shape in addition to actually being in shape. With that said, looking in shape is a lot harder than getting/being in shape.

Disclaimer:
Just because the p90x program produced great results for me doesn't mean it will for you. As said above, this is all very subjective.

[Arapiles .]

"I ran in to a "that guy"… you know the one who's cutting toothbrushes and filing down his teeth to save weight."

Isn't that us? The BPL and TLB crowd?

I've read a few posts like this over the last year or so and my response is always the same: if you are obese you, more than anyone, SHOULD be doing UL to minimise the stress on your body. Lose weight as well, but getting out there is a good first step.

In any case, snide comments about obesity touch a raw nerve with me. From my 20s onwards I was very fit – running 50+ k per week plus other competitive sport, including rugby and karate – but I often looked chubby and used to cop a lot of comments from people I could literally run rings around. According to the height/weight charts I was too heavy (but not grossly or morbidly so) but I was genuinely quick and had a lot of endurance. And for a rugby player I was almost too light.

I'd noticed that when I was sick the puppy fat fell off very quickly, so a couple of years ago I decided to eat less rubbish. Instead I ate lean meat, wholemeal bread, fruit, vegetables. It tasted better and in four months I was 8 kg lighter and it's mostly stayed off. I ride or walk to work every day now and have found that works really well.

What surprised me was how much better the lighter me felt.

[Tom Caldwell]

If a guy has 20 pounds of extra chub but can carry a backpack from sun-up to sun-down w/o getting shortwinded, what does it matter? I've seen too many guys that like staring at themselves in the mirror, when the potential partners they are trying to attract could care less about a little chub. It's probably more harmful to your health to constantly worry about getting that perfect six pack than enjoying a six pack.

[Brad Groves]

I'm not interested in or going to enter a debate about my knowledge base or the structure of my program. It was based on a lot of research and other effective approaches; I have the understanding and approach of a medical background. A major component of my undergrad was the study of organic agriculture and the effects of food on our bodies. Despite efforts to avoid permanently rewiring my metabolism, I believe that is what happened, as Lynn suggested. I'd think that a website full of supposed thru-hikers would be aware of this phenomenon. I'm pretty sure that cycling ten miles a day at 18-22 MPH, and fast hiking 2-4 miles, and intense weight training 1 hour a day combined with a focused and balanced diet was a relatively effective regimen. Could I have done more cardio? Probably. But now we're getting a bit away from the point of the OP.

[W I S N E R !]

While we've shifted to the working out discussion…

P90X!!!!
Right on Chris Wallace!
I just finished my third week of this program; I'd highly recommend it also.
My background is running (marathon-50K distances), cycling (I've completed double centuries+), and rock climbing/bouldering. This is all the exercise I'd do…no real weights, situps, etc.
So I've ended up with pretty unbalanced muscle groups.
Prior to P90X I thought that the old "3 sets of 10-15" worked…Bull$hit!

By the time I finish the P90X chest/back workout I've literally done ~130 pushups of various types combined with ~120 pullups. These numbers get higher by the week.
I'm completely sore all the time and nauseated for an hour after this workout…but it's lessening every time. That says I'm working hard. Working hard is how you change.
The ab workout alone has you doing 350 reps in less than 15 minutes.

I've quickly discovered that I have a lot of work to do but I'm seeing gains REALLY fast. I was in the climbing gym last night for the first time since starting this program- I was pulling down like a monster and not getting tired! I can already see that my running will be better too.
I can't wait to finish another 60 days of this and see where I am…

I guess I've discovered that it takes WAY more than people think to transform yourself. If you think you're working out and eating right and you're NOT seeing gains….something is obviously wrong. Check yourself and get honest! I've seen more progress in 3 weeks than I have in months of what I thought was "working". This has taught me a lot.

[Anonymous]

I think people in this "image is everything" society of ours
tend to get carried away with external appearances. Down through the years, I've hiked and backpacked, on trail and off, and climbed, with several folks who could've afforded to lose at least 30 pounds. Every one of them was in good enough shape to go all day, every day, in some pretty interesting country. The "fattest" one of them all, I mean this guy had a gut that stuck out maybe 6 inches and hung down over his belt, was my partner on a trip that started out at Road's End in KCNP, went up Bubb's Creek over Forrester Pass, on to the Upper Kern Basin, out over Thunder Pass, Longley Pass, on into Sphinx Lakes Basin and back to Road's End. The next year we did basically the same trip, except we went out over Harrison Pass. This was in the late 70's and both trips were done in decidedly non-UL style. The guy moved furniture for a living and was strong and tough as h*ll. Ditto a guy I used to climb with, except he didn't have quite as obvious a gut. He was a solid 5.9 alpine climber and could go all day as well as anybody I ever ran across. Reminded me of a big ol' bear. He also ran 15 ultramarathons(a buddy bet he couldn't do it) and 2 x the Wild Wild West Marathon in a 2 year period. Not fast, but he finished them all before the cut off time. My point is: Don't judge a book by its cover. A mutual friend of Sarah Kirkconnell and me tells me she can book pretty good, too. I'm sure there are plenty more out there as well, so all of you so called "fat folk" don't pay any attention to the snide ones. Just do your thing and enjoy it. If you do it enough, you'll probably drop some weight in the bargain. Either way, it's nobody else's business; We've all got enough on our plates to keep us occupied, or should have. My 2 cents.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

So…now that I have had a couple days to simmer down, let me add why I was irritated:

I come from a family where every woman who had a kid got fat. I was a fat kid. Yet, I was outside running around all day as a kid. My dad never knew when to shut up about me being fat though. I loved him dearly but the fat comments did sting. I know now he didn't mean them badly, but still – men, DON'T MAKE THOSE COMMENTS!!!!!

By the time I hit my teens I started methodically starving myself and living on a cigarette diet. I pulled that one off quite well through college. I was so skinny my bones stuck out. I am sure my BMI was great back then. Of course I had a chronic hack 9 months of the year – I never ate much. One year in college I lived on Blue Raspberry Blow Pops, coffee and a pack a day. I might have a fat free fudgesicle on good days or at least a couple rounds of booze. But food? Oh not that! To say the least, I had a minor eating disorder.

Then I got out of college and had a kid. I bloated up like a tomato. Just like every other woman in my family. In the past 11 or so years I have lost and gained back the same 30 lbs a number of times.

In January I started working out intensively (4 to 5 days a week, with 2 trainings a week plus hiking 1 to2 days a week). My husband lost twice as much as me and gained muscle twice as fast in the first couple months. Genetically and being male it is easier for him. I watch what I eat, I am very careful. Frankly though it is very hard to NOT eat after a 1 1/2 hour workout. You HAVE to eat after that.

I don't go to a trainer that specializes in loosing weight – I am one of the few female clients of my trainer. I do the same workouts my husband does. What my trainer said is this "You can either loose weight or you can get into shape. You will loose weight eventually and get muscles first. Or you can just get skinny." Looking at the ladies doing stretching and gentle workouts, I opted for strength and a a hard workout. He has also adapted my workouts for my hiking, focusing on developing my upper body so I can climb rope ladders on the coast, balance on trees and climb without leg cramps.

The biggest thing was within a couple weeks nearly all of my lower back chronic pain was gone due to developing ab muscles. (I had injured my back a couple years prior that left me in a lot of pain, which didn't help in my keeping weight off.)

Finally, 6 months into I have muscle shape. When I started I could do 1 push up before I fell down. Now I can do 30 or more in 60 seconds. My speed in hiking has gone from barely 2 mph to I can hold 3 or more depending on terrain. On flat I can push to nearly 4 at a near jog. I have successfully hiked a 20+ mile day and am working on doing a marathon distance next.

Again, I cannot rapidly loose weight – it won't stick and I won't build body strength. Being 36, building strength and bone density is SO important as a female! Starving yourself at this point will only weaken bones that can become frail and break.

Working out aggressively is neither easy nor cheap. I pay my trainer $90 a week on top of my gym membership! So around $400 a month. You know how much freaking gear I could own now? Yeah, easy my butt! So far that is around $2400 I have spent! So, getting in shape is neither cheap nor easy if you have bad genetics. Just telling someone "to loose weight" is simply a hot air feel good pat on the back.

I don't know if I will ever be in "shape" or slender in my life. I can say that I will continue to hike as long as I can and enjoy it!

[Aris Dennis]

Heated topic.
I'm a personal trainer, so here are my thoughts on it.
Yes, of course losing 60lb of fat is going to make more of a difference on a walk that losing 100grams of packweight.
And to the OP, I can understand your frustration, being lectured by someone out of shape about losing weight from your pack.

There is a growing trend of accepting obesity as the norm. The idea that we shouldn't struggle against bulging waistlines, that we should just enjoy being out of shape and that striving for a nice body and healthy organs is an "unhealthy obsession". Well hrm. Obesity related health risks are not just a matter opinion. There's no doubt that eating bad food and putting on weight will negatively impact your health.

However, you never know whether someone has already begun losing weight, maybe the portly ultralight guy had already lost 60lb and was now at a stage where he could begin backpacking with an ultralight pack.

Good on anyone who strives to improve their health and fitness. BTW, I am not commenting or having a go at anyone. Merely expressing my views.

[Lynn Tramper]

"Heated topic."

It shouldn't be. Hats off to anyone who just gets out there and hikes the hike. If lightening their pack facilitates or motivates them hitting the trail, then it's got be good. Put another way around, if I had to carry the weight of packs that I carried in my skinny youth, I simply would give up backpacking, and that would NOT be good for my health. And for the record, I have never felt less fit than when I was at bodybuilding competition weight of 8%bf. Moderation is really the key here, you can be too low on bodyfat and that is actually worse for your health than being a few kilos on the heavy side. I mean, I assume we are not talking about truly obese folks as I imagine just walking to the refrigerator would be a huge challenge for them. I work on the assumption that folks visiting this board are no more tham moderately overweight at the most.

[Hikin’ Jim]

>I gained the spare tire when I hit my 50s (and after a severe ankle injury that took me out of exercise for a long time). I had three choices: 1) Naturally I tried to lose the weight. I found this do-able, but it made me feel miserable (always hungry and fixated on food), and just wasn't sustainable long term; 2) Give up backpacking because, the combo of weight gain and stuffed ankle meant I could no longer do the miles, or 3) Lighten my pack to compensate for my deteriorating joints and excess bodyfat. #3 seems the best solution for me.

Wow. Can I ever relate to that. My dad could eat half again as much as I did and not gain a pound. He was an accountant, so it wasn't like he was getting a lot more excercise than I was.

I shattered my right femur a few years ago while doing some back country XC skiing. It took about a year before I could walk fully normally. I weighed 190 lbs the year of the accident. The next year I was up to 220 lbs (yikes!). I've never fully recovered, and I've had a lot of complications, but I am back hiking and BP'ing. My weight is now down to 202 lbs. I'd still like to get back to 190 lbs, but I'm now married, older, and have more to do at work because of layoffs. Losing weight is not so easy as just eating less and excercising more when you have a pretty full plate in life.

Still, losing body weight is the best option I've got. I've replaced/eliminated a lot of the obvious gear items. To reduce my pack weight by 10 pounds would be tough. However, on my body, I've got pounds to spare where it wouldn't "cost" me anything in terms of being properly supplied and equipped for BP'ing.

[Hikin’ Jim]

>Genetics will never explain why some people suffer from the delusion that their body some how is outside the laws of thermodynamics.

Nice job on the sensitivity training there!

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