MSR Carbon Reflex 2

[Tim Testa]

Alright so I just purchased one of these over the weekend because it went for $307 with shipping and everything. I am anxious to get it. Does anyone know if there is videos of it anywhere. Id like to see how the material looks. I am afraid that it might not be that durable. Thanks.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Where did you get one for $307 inc. shipping? eBay?

I got mine for $355 inc. shipping on eBay about 2 mths ago.

I dunno about videos…but I have a CR2 and the material durability doesn't worry me. The floor seems quite durable. The fly is thinner, but it also isn't subjected to nearly the same stress. All the spots were stuff conncts to the fly are nicely reinforced.

I'm not sure what other ultralight tents are like, but the CR2 floor feels like a normal tent floor. Unlike most UL tents which use SilNylon, the CR2's floor is made from: 40 Denier x 238 T ripstop nylon 6 10000mm polyurethane coated & DWR.

It's the same floor material that MSR uses for their other heavier Hubba Hubba tents.I suspect the CR2 floor is one of the more durable ones for an UL tent. I think most of the weight savings with the CR2 are in the design (that requires few poles), the carbon fibre poles and the fly material. For UL hiking trips I'm not going to be using a footprint, but I might pick one up just to minimize wear when I'm car camping etc.

The tent has a very high quality feel to it. You're going to love it. The tent is very satisfying to pitch because it all sets up so darn nice. Use the tension adjusters at the 4 corners once it's all set up to get the tension perfect. Also, make sure you run the cross pole OVER the main pole rather than under.

[Tim Testa]

Yea basically Backcountry Edge was hosting a members only sale (membership is free) over the 4th of July weekend. It was selling for $349.95 with free shipping. Howwwwwwever, first time buyers get an additional 12% their first purchase. So that knocked it down to $307.96. Plus on top of that if you review the tent after it arrives, you'll get an additional $15.36 off of any purchase you make in the future. Basically for every review you give, you get 5% of the value of the item credited to your account. I hope I do not come off as bragging, but since you asked, I figured I tell you about how I used all of these things to convince my girlfriend that this was a sale that we could not pass up on. Luckily it worked! I mean crap the darn thing costs $499.99 at retail stores. Then you figure in tax and that will bump it up to nearly $550, at least with the taxes in Chicago. So knowing that I was going to get 45% off, how could I resist.

Well with all said, I certainly hope this tent works out for us. I love the fact that it weights 3lbs 2ozs fully loaded. It just arrived today at my girlfriends place, so tomorrow were going to try setting it up. As far as the footprint is concerned, I dont know why, but I feel this need to get one. I surly will not pay the $40-50 asking price and will definitely find it for under $30 somewhere. That it not the issue though, its extra weight. I hate that. However, I do want the tent to last a long time since it is after all a pretty expensive investment.

On a totally different note, what is your opinion on the carbon poles? Are they going to last, or are they destined to snap under tension? I read a review on the Backpacker Magazine site and when they tested it out, one of the poles exhibited a stress fracture. It never ended up breaking, but it did not look like it appreciated the tension from what the reviewer described. Please fill me in with your thoughts. Thank you!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I've set the tent up maybe 6-8 times. The main arch pole seems to bend into an arch easy enough. I was worried I would have to pull worrisomely hard on it, but it bends easier than I figured carbon fibre would. I think as long as you make sure the pole sections are fully inserted and you don't step on them (that's probably the biggest risk) they will hold up for the life of the tent. Perhaps they get stiffer, harder to bend and more prone to cracking though in cold weather? I dunno…

The short cross pole is kinda hard to bend because it's so short. The first time I set the tent up I was nervous about how hard I had to pull it. However, it seems to work better if you have the cross pole ABOVE the main pole instead of BELOW it. I believe the instructions on MSRs site contradict the instructions that come with the tent in this regard, so I put it over the main pole as that seems to work better.

I think the fabric may have stretched out a bit after some use, because it's not really hard to stretch the tent bodies grommets onto the cross pole anymore. Accordingly, I don't have to pull as hard on the pole so I'm not too worried about it breaking.

Basically, I think the poles will hold up under normal use but they are probably a bit more prone to breakage than aluminum poles if they are stepped on, recieve a sharp impact and maybe in extreme cold.

Keep in mind that the tent has a lifetime warranty and supposedly MSR is quite good with replacing these poles if they break. So just keep your reciept!

[Tim Testa]

Alright Dave I set up the tent today and I am going to ask you some questions as they pop in my head and state things I like about the tent and somethings I am unsure of.

I love the steaks; nice sturdy metal that is not easily bendable like a lot of stakes that I have dealt with. I obviously like the fact that the tent it super light! The floor is thicker that I thought it would be. The poles seem to be more durable than I thought they would be.

Speaking of poles, two things. Darn you weren't kidding, the short pole is super stiff. Second, because it is so stiff, I placed in underneath the main long one that arches. You said you placed it above though. Weren't you worried about having to bend the little guy upward to hard. When I tried and actually ended up doing it, the thing wanted to slide down the big one when placed on top of it. I may be wrong about this, but it seems like it would be proper to place the pole below the big one. Then again I find it weird to have the small pole just laying straight across the tent doing nothing. Your more knowledgeable then me on matters most likely, so Im curious to hear more of you logic on matters even though you kind of already touched upon this matter.

Ok here is where my major questions come in. I took 10 pictures of my tent with the fly on it. Underneath each of them I wrote questions. Most of them are with regards to what a certain loop is used for. However, I had a hard time accepting where I thought MSR suggested to place the stakes at the front entrance of the fly. If I have things staked out correctly, then I admitt the the front of the fly looks nice and tight. There is a problem though. How in the heck are you suppose to move in and out of the tent through the thin sliver that is provided after you put the fly on. The door is fine when the fly is off, but once you put that fly on and stake it out, you dont get much to work with. I think I may be doing something wrong, but fill me in and let me know what you think. Another thing, any idea how I might pull out the storage area of the fly tighter so its not sagging the way it is in the pictures?

Oh! And what other things am I suppose to guy down with the string that is provided. I am new to tents that have points that you can guy out with string, so please excuse my stupidity on matters. On a side note, i dont even know how to use those guy clips either. The manual gives a diagram of how to work the string through them, but do you know of any sites that are more descriptive with how to play around with them so that they are set up correctly.

Finally, and not that this is a big deal, what is up with the silky roof center? Do you think that it will absorb moisture and drip water above the top inside part of the tent? This question is probably a little overbaord, but I figured Id ask.

I am sure there is more that I intended to ask you, but the mosquitos were chopping the heck out of us in my front yard so I might be forgetting some. If I remember any of them, you can be sure that I will post them. In the mean time here are the pictures. I have numbered the links so that when you go on to make your comments you can refer to the picutres by number. Thanks a lot Dan. If you can even help me with half these questions I will be in complete debt to you!

1) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR9.jpg

2) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR8.jpg

3) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR6.jpg

4) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR5.jpg

5) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR3.jpg

6) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR2.jpg

7) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR11.jpg

8) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR10.jpg

9) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR1.jpg

10) http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR7.jpg

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"Speaking of poles, two things. Darn you weren't kidding, the short pole is super stiff. Second, because it is so stiff, I placed in underneath the main long one that arches. You said you placed it above though. Weren't you worried about having to bend the little guy upward to hard."

When I put it under, I found it was bent/arched upwards and hitting the underside of the main pole. By having it above, it is free to arch up. However, I only tried putting it under once (and the directions on MSRs site say to go under) so perhaps I need to try this again. You may be right that it's better to go under.

Regarding tie out loop in photo #1, I haven't actually used this, but I imagine it would make the tent more sturdy in a heavy wind or under heavy snow load. I was wondering this too and that's the best answer I could think of.

Regarding the loop in picture #3, I believe this is for improving ventilation. If you tie/stake this out, you get more airflow coming under the fly. It actually seems to work pretty good. I used the included rope to stake this out on my most recent trip.

Regarding photo #5, it looks like both vestibules could be pulled out tighter, but especially the door side. This would make it easier to get in/out.

Regarding photo #6….ha ha…yes you are doing something wrong here. Don't stake out both sides of the door. Just stake out one, and then the other side will open up as the door. Choose which 'door' you want to be able to open and then stake the other one. When you unzip the door, you can then roll it up using the thing provided.

Here's a pic from MSR's site:

Photos #7 & #10 are showing another spots you can tie the tent down for windy/snowy conditions

"what other things am I suppose to guy down with the string that is provided."

I use the supplied string for the ventition guy out loops at the bottom ends of the tent, but it severe conditions I'd attach them higher up as support.

"I am new to tents that have points that you can guy out with string, so please excuse my stupidity on matters. On a side note, i dont even know how to use those guy clips either. The manual gives a diagram of how to work the string through them, but do you know of any sites that are more descriptive with how to play around with them so that they are set up correctly."

Just fiddle around with them….they grab the string pretty good almost regardless of how you route them. I don't really know the proper way either.

"what is up with the silky roof center? Do you think that it will absorb moisture and drip water above the top inside part of the tent? This question is probably a little overbaord, but I figured Id ask."

I'm not sure. This fabric won't be absorbing moisture/condensation normally because there is no temperature difference between the two sides like there is with the fly (cold outside, warm inside). My guess is that the condensation that does collection inside the fly can fall on this fabric and be absorbed rather than splashing on you, like it would when a drip hits mesh.

[David Ure]

The cross pole is supposed to be above the arch ple not below it. It will be a tight fit but doing so maximized structural stability.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Are you affiliated with MSR? Or have you just used this tent? If you're affiliated, perhaps mention the contradiction about where this cross pole goes between what's posted on MSRgear.com and the directions that are included with the tent.

Can you confirm that this loop (link below) is for adding additional guylines in severe weather? I can't think of any other use.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d76/Razortceps/MSR1.jpg

[Tim Testa]

Your answers were very elightening. Thank you very much. Especially the explaination on the door. I found it unbelieveable if they actually expected me to crawl through that little crack. So if I stake one door down and leave the other one loose, what if it starts to rain. When I zip the fly down, wont the one thats not staked be flapping around or am I mistaken.

As far as the short pole is concern, when I put it over the long pole, it did not seem to want to bend into a U-Shape like I would think it would. It kinda of just slops over it in a very straight manner. I dont know if this is because this is some kind of defect with my grommet holes being to far apart or if the pole is just too darn stiff. What are your thoughts?

"Are you affiliated with MSR."

No. I wish I was, pffft then Id have all these questions answered. I think I might give them a call soon just to confirm our thoughts on matters. In fact, I am making a decision right now. First thing Monday morning I will give them a call for us. Is there any questions you would like me to address which I havent already brought up? Get back to me and let me know. Thanks!

[Tim Testa]

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/fast-and-light-tents/carbon-reflex-2/product

Judging by these pictures it appears as though you both we correct. I figured to were right, but that pole is so stiff that it made me wonder.

[Tim Testa]

Im going to get a footprint, know of any places to get it cheap? Thanks!

P.S. How do you post pictures like you did with the tent one.

[David Ure]

My good friend has one and used it on the West Coast Trail in early May. He put the cross pole over the arch pole but now after seeing pictures on the Net I see it done both ways. Strange. Carbon fibre won't bend like aluminum so obviously MSR needs to be more clear. I would like to hear the results on this one.

The additonal pullout is for a guyline should the need arise. This I am sure of ;)

[Tim Testa]

Do you actually think it will ever be necessary David or do you think they just put it there so you have peace of mind knowing that it is there? :)

[Donna C]

Just use 2 mil plastic or look at what Gossamer Gear sells. You have a 3 lb tent, why add more with the brand footprint? To save more weight, you really don't need a footprint. I have a Hubba and it's held up well without one. If I choose to do so, I cut out an area the size of my pad out of plastic.

[David Ure]

Timothy – it is a 'just in case you need it' attachment. You can take additional guyline (it should come with some in the tent peg bag) on every trip which will weigh no more than 1/2 and ounce. Most other shelters have these loops but they are in no way needed for effective set-up or reasonably windy condition.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"So if I stake one door down and leave the other one loose, what if it starts to rain. When I zip the fly down, wont the one thats not staked be flapping around or am I mistaken."

No it will be tight. Just give it a shot. When you put in the single stake, have the door zipped closed. Then put the stake in so everything is taut.

"As far as the short pole is concern, when I put it over the long pole, it did not seem to want to bend into a U-Shape like I would think it would. It kinda of just slops over it in a very straight manner. I dont know if this is because this is some kind of defect with my grommet holes being to far apart or if the pole is just too darn stiff. What are your thoughts?"

I think it's normal. It will probably get easier to do after the tent has been used a few times. Mine was hard at first and now it's not too bad.

"No. I wish I was [affiliated with MSR], pffft then Id have all these questions answered."

Ha Ha….I was asking David this.

"How do you post pictures like you did with the tent one"

Click the 'insert image at cursor' button when you are writing a post.

[David Ure]

I spoke to my buddy about the cross pole. He has always put it above the long pole as opposed to under. However, he also added a bit of duct tape to the middle of the short pole where it crosses / touches the arch pole. Although he has not had any issue with durability, he had concern that the two poles would be touching.

[Tim Testa]

Ok sounds good Dan. Like I said Ill give them a call, but I think David has basically cleared everything up for us =) Thanks David and thank you too Dan with the door and stake advice.

Hey David is there any specific reason why he doesnt want the poles touching, because I know if I put my short one above the long one it is definitely going to touch. The only problem that I experienced with this matter is that the short pole had the tendency to want to slide down the long one which can quite annoying if you ask me.

[David Ure]

The regular Hubba models of which the Carbon Reflex is based have the plastic hub which prevents the two poles from touching.

Honestly, I think he is just being precautionary….or anal ; )

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

It's probably fine to have the poles touching, but I don't know how carbon fibre handles this in the long term. If it's a windy night and the poles rub on each other all night, then perhaps this will significantly weaken them? It's probably nothing, but it would be good to avoid if possible.

[Tim Testa]

They said the the three loops that run along the poles (the two that are at are a quarter of the way up on fly running along the main pole and the one that is in the back arching pole near the storage area) are used to adjust the alignment of the fly over them. In other words, center the seams with the poles by giving them a light tug. The ones on the bottom of the middle main pole areas are as you said, to provide more ventalation. And finally, you guys were correct, the little pole is suppose to be on top. It ended up not slipping around once I attached all the clips to the main pole.

Of course after getting of the phone with them a new problem arises for me. Let me post some pictures to start off with.

To begin with, how does my fly look in the first two pictures? Is it staked out tight enough? I am wondering if I steaked it out too tight because of the creases that you can see in various spots.

Alright now take a look at pictures 3 and 4, and take notice of how the fabric in the corners is loose compared to the pictures in 5 and 6. As it turns out, the pictures in 5 and 6 were taken when the fly was off. You can see that it is staked out pretty nicely, unless I am mistaken. However, when I put the fly on and tighten it with the straps, it loosens up like how you see it in picture 3 and 4. What is up with that? How can I fix that or is that normal?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Regarding the loose corners of your tent, what is happening is that when you attach the fly it pulls the corners of the tent up which loosens the body. Without the fly, the stakes are pulling the tent corners straight out. When you attach the fly and pull it tight, this is now pulling upwards on the guylines between the tent and the stake. This lifts the corners and makes them looser. Do you follow?

There are a few approaches you can take to mitigate this:

1) Don't pull the fly as tight. You want the fly generally taut, but there's no need to stretch it so tight you can play a tune on it. Have you noticed the easy tension adjustments on the stake-out lines and on the fly straps? Get your fly acceptably taut, and then tighten up the guylines again to pull the tent body tighter. Tightening the fly less is probably the best approach to minimizing this problem. The tension adjusters on the fly and tent body guylines are really cool and easy to use, but that makes it easy to tighten things more than necessary. I would get the tent body guy lines quite taut, but then tighten the fly ones only as much as needed. When you setup the tent start with all of these cords somewhat slack, and then once you've got the tent setup you can fine tune the tension.

2) Grab 2 extra stakes (plus the 2 extra ones included that you normally don't need) so you have 4 surplus stakes. Now stake down the tent body RIGHT at the corners of the tent (and fully sink the stakes into the ground). This ensures that the tent corners stay on the ground and don't lift upwards and loosen when the fly is attached. The downsides to this approach is that you are carrying a few extra stakes, plus it's a bit harder to stake out the tent because you no longer can use the tension adjustment. If one corner is loose you need to actually pull the stake out and reposition it. This can be a pain in poor soil where it's hard to get a stake in.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I took my CR2 out camping last night. I experimented with putting the cross pole over and under the main pole. It seemed quite clear to me that it worked better OVER the main pole.

With the cross pole routed under, the pole really didn't bend at all so it pulled the fabric extremely tight. When you put it the cross pole over the main pole that initiates a curve, so the cross pole has a safer amount of tension on the tent body. You might have to actually observe this for yourself for it to make sense because it's hard to explain.

Here's a 2nd piece of evidence that the cross pole goes over:

Recall the velcro flaps/loops that secure the fly to the tent poles. There are three of these. The outer two are obviously meant to grab the main pole as the velcro flaps are parallel to the main pole. However, the center one is perpendicular so you can not attach it to the main pole unless you really twist it. It's clearly meant to attach to a pole running perpendicular to the main pole….which is the cross pole. In order to velco the fly to the cross pole, you need to have the cross pole above the main pole. So really, the only way everything works is if you have the cross pole above the main pole. This settled all doubt in my mind.

[Tim Testa]

Guy-out lines and stake-out lines; they are the same thing, correct?

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"Grab 2 extra stakes (plus the 2 extra ones included that you normally don't need) so you have 4 surplus stakes."

Im going to use the other method like you said, but you made me wonder about something. Did you get 8 stakes with your tent? I only got 7 with mine. 4 for the corners, 1 for the storage part of the fly, 1 for the front fly door, and 1 extra one ("extra" after I realized that I was a moron for staking both of my fly doors down.) I will have to get in contact with MSR if I did not get the correct amount of stakes.

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"In order to velco the fly to the cross pole, you need to have the cross pole above the main pole. So really, the only way everything works is if you have the cross pole above the main pole. This settled all doubt in my mind."

I am on the same page Dan. It makes perfect sense! Excellent logic on your part. Speaking of twisting, do you have to push away the loop on the tent near the arching pole when you put the the pole through the grommet of the fly?

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Do you ever use your tent for two people? I am having a debate on whether or not it suits my needs. I cannot decide if I am forcing myself to think that it will or if it is actually possible. When my girlfriend and I get into it we are extremely close together. However, that is not to say that we are overlapping each other by any means. We are basically shoulder to shoulder though, luckily enough this is because we are small. I am 5'7 and she is 5'4. We fit pretty well if she sleeps one way and I sleep the other way, but of cpurse that isnt exactly the way we want to sleep at night. Long story short, I do not mind the available space. The only thing I am concerned about is putting to much tension on the outside length of the tent. The part where our outside shoulders will be resting. It is not like we are hammocking our bodies over the sides of the tent, but our weight does cause the side of tent body that has risen due to the tension of the steaks to collapse downwards. I could ease up on the tension of the stakes so there is a little more give if necessary, but I am not sure if this would be a smart thing to do. What are your thoughts? I really love this tent!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"Guy-out lines and stake-out lines; they are the same thing, correct?"

Yes, at least when I use those terms they are.

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"Did you get 8 stakes with your tent?"

Yes, I believe MSRs intentions are:
– 4 for corners
– 1 for vestibule
– 1 for door
– 2 for either ventilation loops, extra guy outs

I think MSR sells these stakes seperately but I'm not sure.

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"Speaking of twisting, do you have to push away the loop on the tent near the arching pole when you put the the pole through the grommet of the fly?"

Yes, this is slightly annoying but pretty minor really.

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"Do you ever use your tent for two people?"

Yes, I've been on three 1 night trips with this tent and 2 of them were with my wife. I am 6'0" and 165lbs and she is about 5'6 and 125lbs. I haven't mentioned the slightly small size of the tent and she hasn't brought it up or complained at all. I actually find it a really nice size for two. We both sleep with our heads at the same end. It's small enough that things are cozy without being cramped. I like it.

Regarding strain on the tent….I haven't noticed mine pulling too hard. Maybe it just takes a few nights to stretch the fabric a bit? Loosening up the tension isn't a bad idea. The only thing you need to be careful of (that I can think of) is that you don't want the fly hitting the tent body if it's raining (since that contact can cause leakage) and you also don't want the noise and wear of the tent flapping in the wind if it's really loose and quite windy.

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