May 29, 2009 at 7:08 am #1236627
Bad news. Can't figure out how to link it, sorry.May 29, 2009 at 7:26 am #1504303
Bizarre. Out of all the things in the state government, you'd think they could find more pointless things to cut. Like all state services to illegal aliens. Or welfare payments above and beyone the Federal amounts.May 29, 2009 at 7:40 am #1504306
"…you'd think they could find more pointless things to cut. Like all state services to illegal aliens."
Right…because God forbid we try to provide medical care to the sick and an education for children that live here.May 29, 2009 at 7:44 am #1504309
I don't like the idea of hungry kids, but you can't spend money you don't have for very long. And I would think cutting voluntary progams for people who are violating the law would be a good place to start. Guess I'll probably get sent to a re-education camp soon. But I don't live in CA, so if you guys want to close state parks and keep spending 20-40 billion a year on people who don't pay taxes, have at it.May 29, 2009 at 7:45 am #1504311
Obviously, the term "state park" is used pretty loosely in CA. I'm sure these places all have value, but better to close them than areas that allow the public to experience the outdoors, IMO.
All of these places slated to close in Sacramento area require guards with salaries, security systems, janitorial staff, etc., etc.
(From Sac Bee)
In Sacramento, five of six state parks would close. Besides Sutter's Fort and the California State Capitol Museum, the plan envisions closing the Governor's Mansion, the Leland Stanford Mansion and the State Indian Museum. Old Sacramento State Historic Park, including the California State Railroad Museum, would remain open.May 29, 2009 at 7:57 am #1504318
I grew up in Walnut Creek and very much enjoyed the recent Mt. Diablo trip report from Jay.
From Sac Bee
"But parks best suited for campers and hikers wouldn't fare so well, as fees alone are not enough to sustain them. The governor's plan would close noted sites such as Calaveras Big Trees, Anza-Borrego Desert and Mount Diablo."May 29, 2009 at 8:00 am #1504320
@funnymoLocale: Sunshine State
I'm with ya, Joe!
We are a (if not the MOST) charitable nation. But our country's prosperity, and the helpful programs which accompany it, is in jeopardy when we just print $$$ and give it out – let alone to those breaking the law.May 29, 2009 at 8:21 am #1504327
As for those breaking the law, I'd like to see I.C.E. kicking in the doors of our fine citizens that OWN and PROFIT from the farms, the factories, the restaurants, and the construction sites that employ and often exploit illegal immigrants.
Why not start some 3AM raids out in the wealthy suburbs and throw some these fine people onto buses headed for federal detention centers?
But no…that would be TOTALLY crazy. Better to go after men, women, and children seeking basic services.
I'll respectfully bow out of this thread now…It's only a matter of minutes before we're chastised by the forum police for even talking about this.May 29, 2009 at 9:09 am #1504338
@rezniemLocale: San Francisco
But in all fairness, cutting welfare programs, etc., just ends up costing more money elsewhere. This has been demonstrated plenty. You can't just envision the budget as this static thing you can cut and save money from one area….often the program cuts end up biting you in the @ss elsewhere when program cuts cause unintended consequences (increase in emergency room visits, increase in crime/prison rates, etc. etc.).
The problem with the state parks is that there is very little risk of unintended costs from cutting them from the budget. It's not like hikers without a state park are going to turn to crime to fuel their addiction….May 29, 2009 at 9:54 am #1504349
I will agree with about going after the exploiters. I was also trying to make the point that CA pays above and beyond Federal welfare guidelines. I didn't mean to sound so harsh, but as a taxpayer, I don't think it's fair to support non-taxpayers.May 29, 2009 at 9:58 am #1504352May 29, 2009 at 10:09 am #1504355
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
You are right on. We cannot consume more than we can produce. I am tired of supporting others. This is America. People are poor because they want to be poor. I am tired of supporting them. At one time I was deparately poor… and I did not expect nor seek anyone's help.
I worked several jobs and put myself through college, while supporting a family. I did without, and it took me 20 years to get a college diploma. I worked menial jobs for many years. When I could not afford insurance to have kids, I saved my money and paid cash to the hospital and doctor.
Government's purpose is to provide for the common welfare which is a court system that protects our constitutional rights, police and military to protect the citizens.
The harder I work, the more I pay in taxes. And more people sit back and suck up my taxes. Let them take care of themselves.
We have gotten to the point that we are taxed on our ability to produce, and the slackers are rewarded by their "need." I think there is a name for a system that takes from people based on their ability, and redistributes to those based on their need.May 29, 2009 at 10:21 am #1504360
"We have gotten to the point that we are taxed on our ability to produce, and the slackers are rewarded by their "need." I think there is a name for a system that takes from people based on their ability, and redistributes to those based on their need."
ARRRGH! DAMN SLACKERS! Sucking the lifeblood of our economy and hard work!!!
By slackers I assume you're referring to the executives of Citibank, BofA, GM, AIG, and the likes?
And I think the name for the system you're searching for would be Crony Capitalism.
Sorry, I couldn't resist, I'm on break.
So where are the forum police? This is screaming CHAFF and nobody has gone nuts yet!!!!May 29, 2009 at 10:30 am #1504362
We're running about 80/20 Chaff/Gear so this stuff no longer seems out of place ;o)May 29, 2009 at 10:46 am #1504369
Good. I don't live Cali and have only been there a few times. But you people have serious problems that you need too fix on your own. You need to outlaw public employee Unions first. That is what is killing your state. Want to know what happens to a public employee who goes on strike ing VA. Fired on the spot. Can never hold another goverment job in the State for life. That would solve your problem by itself. Well that and stopping the payments and services to the illegal leaches. Oh and yes Craig I would love it if ICE would kick down the doors of the people who employee them. I would love to see a 100,000 fine as well as 10 years in prison for violaters who knowingly hire illegals. I would like to see bounties paid on them and the employers taken from asset forfiture of anyone found to be harbouring or employing an illegal. I do believe this would solve the problem nicely. I would love to see everyone of them deported to thier country of origin with a warning that if they are found in the US agian with out proper papers they will spend the rest of thier life in a really nasty work camp in say Alaska. This would stop the percipitous decline in wages that Americans have sufferd thru in the constuction trades and other areas of the economy. Scarce labor and high wages relative to the rest of the world are what made this country such a great place to live in the past.May 29, 2009 at 11:13 am #1504379
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
It is easy to find someone upset about all the people who don't pay taxes.
Far fewer people mention that lots of those who don't pay taxes are employed.
Hardly anyone expresses any outrage towards these businesses and business practices that effectively force US tax payers to subsidize the salary of their employees.
Its sad that they are thinking of closing state parks, but I think Nate presented the reasoning fairly well. Gutting social programs just pushes the problem somewhere else, often at greater expense.May 29, 2009 at 11:13 am #1504380
@halfturboLocale: Northernish California
I can see that several of you have opinions of the situation here in California that are untainted by the facts of the matter, but I applaud your eagerness to help fix things for us.
To get you started, here is the 2009-2010 Budget Summary, all 175 pages of it (some summary!).
I'll note that the top expense category is K-12 education, an area where we lag behind the national median in dollars spent per student and, in fact, spend barely half of what New York and New Jersey do.
I'll also note that in potentially closing our state parks they'll be subject to greatly increased vandalism and poaching and illegal logging, which I'm sure as outdoor lovers we can all agree will be a very bad outcome.
Please let me know what you think we can do about the budget–reality-based please. I have folks I can pass your tips along to.
A proud, concerned California resident,
RickMay 29, 2009 at 12:02 pm #1504386
>Hardly anyone expresses any outrage towards these businesses and business practices that effectively force US tax payers to subsidize the salary of their employees.
Consider this as outrage expressed.
And there is no non-anecdotal link between spending per student and performance. (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/bg2179.cfm) When I checked a few years ago, most of the bottom 10 states in student spending were in the top 20 in performance. I believe CA has the highest paid teachers in the nation, so I would expect better results, personally. And I never suggested gutting social programs. I only suggested limiting them to legal residents, and at levels comparable to the other 49 states in the Union.
But you're right, I don't live there, so I'll leave you guys to it. Enjoy.May 29, 2009 at 12:48 pm #1504399
When they say they're closing the parks, what do they mean, exactly? There's plenty of ways to hike into Mt. Tam and Mt Diablo without paying. (I have a State Parks membership anyways) Would they put up cyclone fencing to keep people out? Just stop maintaining trails? Arrest you for trespassing if you hiked in?
When they say 'close' what does it mean?May 29, 2009 at 1:17 pm #1504401
Where does park funding come from? Could they not add some kind of increase to sales tax, a fraction of a percent, to raise more funds?
Maybe they are just using scare tactics to get the citizens riled up to accept higher taxes.
How about cutting police budgets? Have they did that yet?May 29, 2009 at 1:18 pm #1504402
@kennyhel77Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
California might just have the highest paid shcool teachers in the USA. A little insight here, since I am an expert….my wife teaches High School. When you look at the cost of living in California it is easy to understand that ALL of our salaries here are higher than other places, including teachers. My wife has to spend her own money on supplies, because her students cannot afford to, as well as the school cannot. Alot of students in California have never been to school and have english as a second language (barely). Teaching kids that cannot understand you is difficult in the least. That is why scores are lower here. Our school system is one messed up entity that needs to be fixed and quick. No child left behind is a joke. Ask any teacher and they will tell you the same.
My wife works 10-12 hours a day. She earns a salary of around $70,000. Why does she earn that wage? Because she rec. a Masters Degree.May 29, 2009 at 1:23 pm #1504404
@kennyhel77Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Timothy Foutz, please do not call California, Cali. That is annoying.
Oh and your idea of hiring illegal immigrants is stupid. How do you think we can keep our Ag business running as cheaply as we do. It is because of all of those darn illegals picking crops.May 29, 2009 at 1:28 pm #1504406
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
"When they say they're closing the parks, what do they mean, exactly?"
It is the usual scare tactics. We are going to cut police, fire, state parks, etc. so the public opinion will sway to allow the government to keep growing.May 29, 2009 at 1:39 pm #1504408
@cbertLocale: N. California
california teachers do have the highest average salaries in the country & even as a former public school teacher in CA, i'd say the average salary is probably too high in CA – a product of one of the strongest employee unions around.
i think the most important variable that can be changed by funding is average class size – california has one of the largest average class sizes in the country. there is a lot of data demonstrating a direct benefit to student achievement with smaller classes. however, even a 10% reduction in average teacher salaries wouldn't put much of a dent in the class size problem since california is near the bottom of the developed world in per capita spending on education. one part of the budget i think should be kept intact or actually increased is education.
if you offered me double the current salary but a 15% larger class or 15% less than the current salary but a class half the current size, i'd refuse the former (the main reason i did not continue teaching in public schools) and jump enthusiastically at the latter.May 29, 2009 at 1:41 pm #1504409
@rezniemLocale: San Francisco
I recently moved to California and am amazed at how difficult it is for the legislature to do anything, both because of the 2/3 requirement to pass a budget and the insane proposition system.
For instance, the people of California recently passed a proposition requiring the legislature to allocate funds for a high-speed rail line through the Central Valley. As a public transportation user and advocate, I'm excited by it, but wonder where the money will come for the construction. On the other hand, propositions to raise more revenue through additional taxes or fee hikes almost always fail miserably. So in a real sense, the legislature is completely hamstrung by the public's desire for more spending projects, but completely intractability on measures to fund them.
The most egregious example is Proposition 13, passed in 1971, which restricted property tax to 1 percent cash value of the property.
Consider this (rather than blaming illegals or poor people, as some here are inclined to do) when asking yourself why California can't seem to get it together.
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