NeoAir in a Ptarmigan Bivy

[Darren Johnson]

Can anyone tell me if there is enough room in a Ti Goad Ptarmigan Bivy to put a Thermareast NeoAir Regular with a 20 deg down bag? Thanks!

[Matt Lutz]

I don't believe so. I saw Bill Pucket put his NeoAir in a Raven XL from TiGoat and there was little room in the footbox for a bag. You can ask him, though.

[Turley]

I have a Ptarmigan Bivy and do not believe any 2.5" pad will work well…not enough space especially in the foot box. I've found a 1" pad, either inflatable or closed cell foam, works well.

[Greg Mihalik]

I had a Neoair in a Ptarmigan bivy using a 40° bag.

It was to tight. Not enough room for feet or for loft.

Edit: The Neoair was a Regular – 72"

[Darren Johnson]

Hmmm…Workable solutions? What about a 3/4 NeoAir and a cut-down closed-cell pad for my feet? What about using the pad under the bivy in question. Finally, are they any other highly-breathable, inexpensive bivy like the Ptarmigan?

I have never used a bivy before, so I very much value you experienced comments!

Thanks!

Darren

[Jim MacDiarmid]

Darren,

I have used the Ptarmigan bivy with a short NeoAir with a 60" Gossamer Gear 1/8" thinlite pad underneath. I was using a WM Summerlite 32* bag with 4" of loft and I had no problems. It was 40 degrees at night, I was under a tarp, and I didn't feel cold, but that's so subjective as to be almost useless to you. The fit was fine though. It was my first time using a bivy.

One thing is, how tall are you, and how long is your bag? Because the Ptarmigan fits a 6'6" bag, and if you are using a 6' bag, as I was, you're feet would not reach all the way down to the footbox, and therefore have a little more room to work.

There's no reason you couldn't put the pad under the bivy rather than inside it. I think most people put it inside because it keeps it in place nicely.

I think I'll have time tonight, and if I do, I'll inflate my short NeoAir and stick it in the bivy with my Marmot Sawtooth 15* bag and see how it fits and report back. I have some foam mat that I can use to extend and simulate a regular sized NeoAir too.

[Darren Johnson]

James, that would be so cool! I will look forward to what you discover with your 15 deg bag. I'm 6' 2" and DJ at Ti Goat recommended a Raven XL (not on the web site yet) if I'm trying to stick a full length NeoAir in it. He said he still wasn't sure if there would be enough room in the foot section for it though.

[JT Croteau]

Darren: Is the "Raven XL" a new Bivy from TiGoat?

[Darren Johnson]

Yes, apparently. DJ says it is longer than the Ptarmigan, the hood and foot is the same size, and it is only incidentally wider, due to a longer length. He said it was $110. I'm waiting for him to send me the weight.

[Jim MacDiarmid]

I put my short NeoAir the bivy and pushed it down to the footbox. It had the affect of stretching the bivy so taught because of its width that there was no room in the footbox even without a bag.

However, when I scooted the NeoAir up, to where it stopped 17" from the end of the bivy, I found that I had just enough room with my Marmot Sawtooth (~5"-5.5" of loft) The fabric was taught where the NeoAir was by my shins, but it didn't seem to be affecting the bag's ability to loft. Where the NeoAir wasn't, in the footbox, I had plenty of room to move my feet around.

If I scooted the NeoAir farther up, and left 24" of space between the end of the pad and the bottom of the bivy, it was ideal. Plenty of room in the footbox, and no taughtness in the bivy. I was able to pinch 3-4" of extra fabric around where my knees and shins were while inside the bag, allowing me some space to move around (or side-sleep) without compromising the bags loft.

So, as the Ptarmigan is 87" long, and the Reg. NeoAir is 72", you might have some issues.

But I personally would feel comfortable using the 60" NeoAir in the Ptarmigan, as it would leave 27" at the bottom of the bag.

I will note that Greg, who sold me the bivy, commented above that he found it too constrictive with the NeoAir. I spent 5-10 minutes in the bivy experimenting; if I remember correctly, he spent several hours.

[Darren Johnson]

Thank you for your testing. Other than slipping off the pad, what would the drawback be of just using the full NeoAir under the bivy instead of in?

[Jim MacDiarmid]

The top fabric is actually pretty sticky. I'm not sure how much sliding off would be an issue. Using it under the bivy, you might be concerned with puncture or abrasion. You could use a light groundcloth though like the Gossamer Gear Polycryo.

[Robert Quimby]

i have a ti goat bivy, long with netting, 8.1 oz. i use an insulmat max thermo, long, and there is room left at each end.
in summer i use a homemade ray-way quilt ( 60 deg, 21.9 oz. ) and in spring-fall i use a mountainsmith wisp, long ( 30 deg, 25 oz. ). i have yet to feel cramped.i'm 6-2, 160 lbs. and a side-belly sleeper

[Franco Darioli]

Darren
In my pic I have a pair of 8.5 shoes on top of an Exped 7 R , very similar in size to the neo. As you can see the shoes (provably similar in length to a size 9.5 foot) are pushing against the fabric , so tthere is no room at all for any bag. You would have a bit more room sleeping sideways but not that much for any bag loft.
You mention a 20 f bag, if you plan to use that maybe you should be using something like a ThinLite inside the bivy and the Neo under on the outside, 'cause the Neo by itself is really only good down to around 32f.
I moved the mat all the way against the top, did not make any difference…
Unlike others, my opinion (not a fact…) is that you can have any bag you like on top, if your mat is under-rated you will be cold.
Franco

[John Frederick Anderson]

Hi,
My Ptarmigan Bivy and Stephensons warmlite combination doesn't work either- too much pad for the feet!! Shame really… very nice bivy but I agree with Franco- the mat is the key for me to stay warm.
Anybody interested in a Grey Ptarmigan '08 used once, without netting?
I'm in Europe, will sell to a good home.
cheers,
fred

[Mike M]

I sent an email inquiring on the possibility of a slightly larger version to accommodate a neoair- it appears there are quite a few us using them so it might possibly be feasible?????????

[Pedro Arvy]

No, it doesn't work with a NeoAir medium. The down gets compressed at the base of the bivy.

See my post here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=24669

The tapering of the InsulMat Max-Thermo Sleeping Pad would make a big difference.

[Mike M]

that's encouraging that he might be making a Neo compatible one- maybe my email wasn't in vain :)

[jeffrey bennett]

"No, it doesn't work with a NeoAir medium. The down gets compressed at the base of the bivy."
I am with padro. I tried using mine with a Big Anges air core and my feet were cold. It was just to tight. I now use a 60 inch clearview/quilt set up and it is perfect. When temps are low I use the GG thinlight pads in addition to my normal set up.

[Patrick Young]

I also called Titanium Goat and talked to DJ and he said he was getting quite a bit of interest in a wider/Neoair/BA compatible bivy and would be working on it.

If your interested call or send him an email. The more interest in this product, the sooner it will happen.

[Jason Elsworth]

Would a short NeoAir in one of the larger Raven bivies be OK? I am a side sleeper in the fetal position so need the space. The only real alternative seems to be the MLD Soul Side Zip, but it is expensive. I also think the full net hood design on the Ti Goat bivys is excellent. I tried the NeoAir out at a retailers yesterday and was impressed with the comfort, but not the insane New Zealand prices of about USD 300 for a regular.

[Mike M]

bump for this question- I might consider going to a short

thanks in advance

[Tyson Marshall]

I've been perusing these forums looking for answers to various TiGoat bivy questions. Instead of looking TOO hard, I decided to shoot a few questions over to TiGoat. (It sounds like they are working on putting additional information/pictures on their website) I think they just moved locations and must be extremely busy, but they still had time to answer a few of my questions…

Some information I gathered: (Josh, Dj – feel free to chime in with any additional information)

A summary of questions I asked:

"A bivy that will accommodate the following:

Ridgerest Regular (Max 72")
Short Neo Air
Me (5' 8")
(in an earlier email I also mention my sleeping bag: 800 Fill, 15 Degree Bag – Mountain Hardwear Phantom)

The Raven seems like it would be too long for me – I'm short! :) – but the Ptarmigan seems like it would be too narrow for the neoair, correct?

Is there some sort of compromise?

Josh's summary:

"…The Raven Omni is essentially a Ptarmigan that has the dual zip option, and a wider foot for pads. The extra length is a bit decieving, as the extra length is a function of extra width, its not stated very well on the website…I'd go the Omni route… the Omni will only accept a bug net hood, and not a window. And when you have the bug net hood in the bivy, the zipper does not open as full as it would without out the bug net. With out bug net, the bivy zipper will zip from hip, up acroos the chest, and down to the opposite hip. With the bug net it will only open from hip, up across the chest, but not down to the other hip. But, it will open this way from either right or left. We really need to get pictures, prices and specs up on the website. The Raven Omni is ~7.1oz, and $130, a bug net hood is an additional $20…"

Hope this helps others that might have similar questions or was unsure…

[Mike M]

Tyson- thanks for the info :) I ended getting the newer model MLD Superlight- fits great w/ a full sized neo- even enough room to add an additional ccf if needed

Mike

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