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Toilet Paper


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Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 62 total)
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  • #2069385
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    Tad,

    The answers are Here.

    WAGs are interesting, but nothing beats science.

    #2069407
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    I think cat-holes have been covered but I just wanted to throw another variable into the equation… pit toilets. Hiking in areas like the enchantments, N. Cascades, or on trails around Rainier, pit toilets are plentiful and should be used to the best extent possible to prevent the rest of the park from turning into a cesspool. (yeah yeah yeah… “I avoid those areas, too many people, NPs are the devil, blah blah blah”).

    In these areas, I like to use biodegradable baby wipes for a couple reasons: 1) don't want to (and shouldn't) throw used rocks into the toilet or disperse them into the woods. Also don't want to pick leaves or other fauna for TP in a high traffic area 2) takes fewer baby wipes to polish off the undercarriage than it does to do the same job with TP. I find one sheet ripped in half to be sufficient for the job.

    Yokes grocery store will carry biodegradable wipes from time to time and you can find them online also. I'll lay them out at home to dry them out and then pour a little water on them right before I use them.

    Packing them out is never a bad idea but even towards the end of season, I didn't find any volcano pit toilets on the Wonderland and think throwing them (biodegradable ones) into the composting pit toilet is perfectly fine despite the fact I risk a visit from the BPL inquisition for saying so.

    #2069409
    Mobile Calculator
    Spectator

    @mobile-calculator

    #2069414
    Brian Crain
    Spectator

    @brcrain

    Locale: So Cal

    "…and think throwing them (biodegradable ones) into the composting pit toilet is perfectly fine despite the fact I risk a visit from the BPL inquisition for saying so."

    Urinating in a composting toilet is much much worse than throwing biodegradeable wipes into them…

    #2069421
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "Urinating in a composting toilet is much much worse than throwing biodegradeable wipes into them…"

    Good to know. I've never seen one with a diverter in it in the NP and it is well beyond my ability to separate those two transactions 100% when it comes time to make my deposit.

    #2069422
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    Composting toilet in Grand Valley, Olympic National Park, says not to urinate in toilet

    This topic is now degenerating : ) – I can usually urinate next to it (on rock so goats don't detroy what I'm urinating on) then #2 in toilet

    When not composting toilet, it's good to combine – the fertilizers are complementary

    #2069423
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    > Urinating in a composting toilet is much much worse than throwing biodegradeable wipes into them…

    Do you have any scientific proof of that, or is it urban myth?

    Cheers

    #2069427
    Tad Englund
    BPL Member

    @bestbuilder

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    +1 thank you Roger, I was thinking the very same thing. Biogradeable wipe vs urine- my bet is that urine is a better long term, earth healthy option.

    Sorry for the thread drift-

    Tad

    #2069430
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    "Composting toilet in Grand Valley, Olympic National Park, says not to urinate in toilet"

    Some of the toilets I encountered at Rainier were just simple pit toilets. My understanding from talking to a ranger is that the digested bounty is removed at the end of the year even though some composting does occur. Not sure where it's disposed of after that. Of the true composting toilets I saw (N. Puyallup for example), I don't recall seeing a request to not urinate in there.

    I admit I'm not wise in the ways of the composting pooh and will consult Master Po for guidance.

    Edit "my bet is that urine is a better long term, earth healthy option."

    From my past Google Fu, I've seen people use a urine diverter with their urban composting toilets. I realize that diluted urine makes for a good fertilizer and is generally sterile (assuming the donor is healthy) but do the extra fluids hamper the composting process?

    #2069431
    Larry De La Briandais
    BPL Member

    @hitech

    Locale: SF Bay Area

    The composting toilet in LYV has no such warning. They do warn about throwing plastic, etc., but nothing about urine.

    #2069437
    Brian Crain
    Spectator

    @brcrain

    Locale: So Cal

    Urine contains more nitrogen than poo and works against the mold and bacteria that compost and breakdown the solids, including the biodegradeable wipes. The majority of nasty composting toilets you come across will smell of ammonia which is from the urine – as opposed to the anaerobic digestion of the composter which needs to be aerated.

    Barring health issues, urine is nearly sterile and is perfectly fine on a rock or some DG. Long term, urine will kill the composting toilet long before IDB's handiwipes through reduced effectiveness.

    There is a sh^t ton (pun intended) of crapper data out there about composting toilets and urine, just google it. Every one will discuss urine and separation from poo – and most kits available provide urine diversion – none discuss not tossing in biodegradeable wipes.

    …lol@ f e c e s hitting the profanity filter :)

    #2069455
    Dave @ Oware
    BPL Member

    @bivysack-com

    Locale: East Washington

    Use the red cob first, then the white cob. The white cob will tell you if you need another red cob.

    #2069464
    M B
    BPL Member

    @livingontheroad

    All the mouldering privys Ive used say dont pee in them too.

    And the volunteers that clean them out, say dont put trash or wipes in them.

    TP biodegrades much faster than wipes. Someone ends up picking that stuff out with their (gloved) hands when the privy is full or moved. Yep, they get full. People crapping and throwing in handfulls of woodchips many times a day builds up. Into compost yes, but compost with debris in it usually.

    #2069469
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    The National Park people put the sign up saying not to urinate in it, so I don't think it's urban myth.

    It's just a sealed container, so if you put urine in, it will fill up faster.

    In pit toilets, liquids drain out of it over time, totally different chemistry.

    Maybe some composting toilets are different than other ones.

    #2069488
    Brian Crain
    Spectator

    @brcrain

    Locale: So Cal

    Some are different – active and inactive. Active are at more front country settings and will usually have some powered (solar) aeration or ventilation. For the most part though, composting is composting – which is much different than a septic system.

    Pits in remote and underutilized areas aren't affected as much by peeing in them – they do need moisture to work and if they are overly dry from lack of use or maintenance this is just absorbed and the PH balances back out before destroying the process. But a little goes a long way… which is what happens to most higher use areas – too much urine and instead of a composting toilet you end up with a nonfunctioning septic holding tank – with no active bacteria or agents working to break down the excrement. These have to be serviced too frequently and are not effective – which is a big factor as to why many are disappearing from the backcountry: failure to use them properly = more maintenance/pumping/waste removal = increased cost = ….you get the rest.

    #2069526
    Dena Kelley
    BPL Member

    @eagleriverdee

    Locale: Eagle River, Alaska

    Interesting comments. I particularly have no experience with composting toilets and as a woman (maybe this isn't normal? I dunno) I tend to do a #1 and #2 simultaneously and don't know exactly if I'd be able to separate it out if I had to. I've never had to.

    I'm a TP packer but I pack it out. I cannot *stand* to see piles of TP laying around. I don't mind if people bury or burn, but I pack mine out. I've started carrying the little bags in with me that I use for my dog on our walks- they're lightweight black bags so not see-through which I think is better. Plus they are a lighter material than ziplock bags so when ounces count these are better.

    #2069546
    M B
    BPL Member

    @livingontheroad

    You do the #1 on a rock before you go to do the #2 in the privy, greatly reduces any mistakes. A clean mouldering privy has virtually no smell, ones people have peed in smell like youd expect a cesspool to smell.

    #2069571
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    > ones people have peed in smell like youd expect a cesspool to smell.
    Um ???

    We have a lot of 'biodynamic self-composting' loos in our National Parks. Can't say I have smelt them – unless someone has piddled all over the floor.

    Cheers

    #2069579
    Dave @ Oware
    BPL Member

    @bivysack-com

    Locale: East Washington

    The rocket boxes one takes floating the Grand Canyon would fill up and make a huge mess with urine, so everyone first pee's in the river (urine on the shore would build up and smell) then uses the rocket box for number 2. A bit of a challenge for all, but hey, you get used to it.

    #2069692
    . Kirby
    Spectator

    @kirby805

    Being extremely reactive to poison oak, I refuse to use plants to wipe my undercarriage. I can contract a poison oak rash just by touching plants in the vicinity of a poison oak bush, which is basically every plant in my local backcountry (SoCal). And I'm sorry, but I am not packing out my poo paper. It's getting burned or buried.

    #2069701
    Link .
    BPL Member

    @annapurna

    THIS is the best toilet paper and Hendrik does a great review in this video ;)

    #2069718
    Steofan M
    BPL Member

    @simaulius

    Locale: Bohemian Alps

    Still laughing, tooo difficult to type

    #2073512
    Sumi Wada
    Spectator

    @detroittigerfan

    Locale: Ann Arbor

    >> And I'm sorry, but I am not packing out my poo paper. It's getting burned or buried.

    Excludes you from hiking some great areas, like the Grand Canyon and Zion.

    #2073543
    Marko Botsaris
    BPL Member

    @millonas

    Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA

    " And I'm sorry, but I am not packing out my poo paper. It's getting burned or buried."

    Bad Kitty!

    But really? The "poo paper" is just too gross for you, but you find it is fine to leave it in the wilderness you are supposed to care about?

    I've been doing this for 20 years, all trips, regardless. Use one or more special ziplocks for the used TP. Press the air out of the bag when closing. It doesn't smell but if you like you have an option to put certain chemical items in the bag to reduce what little smell there is. It goes in the very bottom of the bag, and causes no issues, inconveniences or smells at all.

    So my reaction is a bit more strident than Sumi's – not to pack it out it is just flat out ignorance, and possibly squeamishness that is highly unbecoming and unmanly for a backpacker. Maybe the Hello Kitty TP really would be right for you! ;-)

    I'm with you on the poison oak, however. Fortunately I am not very very sensitive, but we had a visiting Swedish scientist working at Los Alamos one time that literally used poison oak to wipe on a backpacking trip in the Jemez mountains – and spent a while in the hospital. I think the psychological damage must have been longer lasting as he unfortunately became known around the lab, in spite of his brilliance, as "that guy who wiped his ass with poison oak".

    #2073610
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "but you find it is fine to leave it in the wilderness you are supposed to care about?"

    Could you explain to us why burning TP in the cat hole or in the depression beneath a good sized boulder constitutes a crime against the wilderness, assuming there is no fire danger? The same question applies to well buried TP in a well selected site highly unlikely to be visited by humans.

    Edited: TP disposal has been the subject of considerable, at times heated, debate here down thru the years, with no clear consensus ever having been arrived at. I can assure you that there are a number of backpackers on BPL, no less manly nor more ignorant than you, who would take issue with your words. There are many valid approaches, depending on conditions, administrative edicts, and personal taste, so why not just WYOA and let others do the same without the condescending insults? At the very least, append an IMO to the end of your sentence to make it clear that you are expressing just that, an opinion, neither more nor less valid than anyone else's.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 62 total)
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