UL hommock camping

[Douglas Frick]

> I suggest that you repeat this test with a 3 oz Space Emergency Blanket on top of the UnderPad.

I haven’t noticed much difference with a Space Blanket in prior tests, but I might try again. It wasn’t exactly comfortable (the test was meant to fail) so you might guess I’m not in a hurry to sleep cold again. This isn’t what I would take if I thought the temps were actually going to be in the 20s. However, I was thinking about trying it again wearing summer hiking clothing, so I could be sure I got really cold :)

I do lie in the hammock at an angle, and the UnderPad was mostly to the right of the slit. I think part of the problem is that the UnderPad wasn’t covering all of the hammock slit, and the UnderCover slit was gaping open, which let lots of air come up against the hammock bottom. The hammock slit was the only place that felt really cold, as opposed to just cool. (I’m a side sleeper, so my knees are over and to the left of the hammock slit.) The configurations where there was an air gap were _without_ the UnderCover. With the UnderCover, the UnderPad is held closely against the hammock bottom along its full length.

I think if I were going to carry a Space Blanket at 3 oz, I would be more likely to carry instead the GG ThinLight 1/8″ full-length pad at 2.5 oz. That pad has proven its worth several times.

[Douglas Frick]

> That is very encouraging about the JRB Nest. I have the No Sniveller Long and would expect it to preform the same.

YMMV, so it’s certainly worth testing yourself. But I’m really impressed with the performance of the Nest, and your No Sniveler is built just the same. I wish now I’d spent the next night out after test #3; it went to -10F and I would like to know if the Nest alone would have been sufficient. (The three layers of clothing are also crucial to my overall results.)

> I was suspicious that the UnderPad would be too small. Maybe Tom would be willing to sell a long version. The width was good for you though?

It seems a bit short, but after considering how it is cut and suspended, I’m not sure it could have been made much longer without introducing other problems, such as distorting the ends. (Just a guess.) The width was fine; it came up high enough on both sides, and when side-sleeping width isn’t really an issue. It was just long enough for me to work around its ‘short’comings by separately insulating my head; you would need to separately insulate your feet as well as your head (non-compressible insulation, such as a sit-pad or boot liners) unless you sleep with your legs drawn up.

> The Hennessy web site lists the UnderPad at 6 oz and the Undercover at 8 oz. That’s quite a difference from your measurements. I bet yours are right unfortunately.

The weights came from my Pitney-Bowes digital postal scale. I just double-checked them. My other UnderPad weighs 10.6 oz (I bought two in case I needed to double-up; this was before I decided to get the Nest). The UnderPad stuff sack weighs 0.9 oz; I think the stuff sack might be necessary to keep from damaging the UnderPad (not sure, but that’s why HH includes it).

>It is sounding like the JRB Weather Shield (WS) may be a better option than the Undercover. If the UnderCover were made out of the same material as the WS and didn’t have the slit. Is the silt needed because of how the UnderCover fits on the hammock?

Yes, it seems to come up fairly high on the sides compared to the Weather Shield, and it’s hung to the end of the hammock rather than suspended. I tried moving it over to get in, as you do with the Weather Shield, but it really put the UnderCover side under tension and I was afraid something was going to rip. On the other hand, one good point is that you can use it to suspend other insulation right up to the ends of the hammock. (But I don’t plan to use other insulation at this point.) In my opinion the UnderCover works better with the UnderPad because it holds the UnderPad close to the hammock; the UnderPad is open-cell foam and doesn’t compress easily. The UnderCover compresses the Nest, while the Weather Shield doesn’t. I think the JRB Nest and Weather Shield and the HH UnderPad and UnderCover are well-designed pairs, just different. However, the UnderPad does work well with the Nest and Weather Shield pair, if you need to add more insulation (the GG ThinLight would work well too). Mostly I’m surprised that the UnderCover’s slit doesn’t seem to close as well as the HH hammock slit. (I’m going to check that out more carefully next time I hang the hammock.) If you only get the Weather Shield, the UnderPad or ThinLight (when used alone inside the Weather Shield) might benefit from a Space Blanket, as Richard suggests. I’ll have to try that in a few months when it gets warmer. (One concern with a Space Blanket is that it will cause condensation on the bottom of the hammock, rather than on the UnderCover. I’ve had this happen before with a Space Blanket.)

> Your test bringing the tarp down close to the hammock was interesting. It sounds like it works too well. You had 30 mph wind and did not mention it being a problem so I assume the tarp blocked it. I really want to get rid of the OverCover. It seems there must be a way.

The tarp definitely blocked the wind; it was still windy when I had the headache. I staked the tarp down very close, and I think I experienced CO2 buildup. In the future I will be sure to stake it down just far enough away to enough to expose some of the mesh (this is why the OverCover has a porthole). As I said before, I think the OverCover is something to use when it gets cold (+10F and below?). I wouldn’t use it above freezing, and at this point I’m not certain I’d use it above +10F. I did use it successfully at +15F/+10F, but that doesn’t mean it was necessary. The mesh on the hammock handles the frost from the tarp fairly well, but the dew point has been 10F lower than air temp; if it was 100% humidity the condensation on the tarp could really become a problem if you staked it close. You have a down top-quilt, so condensation in the hammock would be more of a concern for you than it is for me. The OverCover was designed for dry, very cold conditions; that’s the only time I plan to use it. If the temp inside your hammock is warm enough (about 10F above outside temp is what I have measured) then you wouldn’t need to stake the tarp close anyway.

>Just out of curiosity, which part of the country do you usually hike in in the summer?

Washington’s Olympic mountains; until recently Hawaii; and now Wyoming.

[Douglas Frick]

>which I will have to test in a few months…

We had a record high yesterday (+60F) so I figured the overnight temperature would be warm. It was +42F in the evening, +37F at midnight, and +30F at 2am. Wind was 15-25mph and there were occasional rain showers. Close enough.

I used the “summer” hammock configuration described in my “Hammock warmth 4” post. I staked the tarp far enough away to allow for good ventilation without allowing the wind through. For clothing, I wore what I would likely wear/carry for three-season hiking:

WalMart compression tank-top (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.0 oz)
Patagonia R.5 long-sleeve zip-T (XL: 11.4 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs (L: 1.8 oz)
Lands End convertible hiking pants (L: 13.2 oz)
DriDucks rain pants (XXL: 4.4 oz) (optional)
Mountain Hardwear Polartec fleece watchcap (L: 1.0 oz)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)

I wanted to use the same upper-body insulation as my previous test so I could focus on the change in lower-body insulation. For summer hiking I would probably swap the WalMart shirt and Patagonia R.5 for an REI CoolMax mesh t-shirt (6.0 oz) or REI MTS midweight t-shirt (7.8 oz) and save a half-pound; I could save an additional 4.5 oz by leaving the zip-off pant legs home.

Last time I tested this configuration (at temps 5-10F colder), my legs were cold even with the BMW Cocoon pants. I was careful to arrange the UnderPad beneath my legs, and checked the UnderCover slit: it appeared to close better this time. My upper body was warm, maybe too warm (I had to open the zips on my upper-body insulation), and my legs and bottom side were comfortable and not too cool. Around 1am I took off the DriDucks pants to see if that made a difference. It wasn’t a big difference: I zipped up my R.5 and Micropuff and went back to sleep just as warm as before. There was no condensation on the tarp, and again a small amount of condensation on the bottom of the UnderPad. I didn’t feel a chill on my under-side when the wind gusted. I did manage to poke a hole in the UnderPad foam when I was grabbing it through the hammock fabric to pull it up; I will have to be more careful in the future.

I don’t think the clothing worn is out of the ordinary for 3-season hiking, so it appears that the 4.75 pounds of sleeping gear is sufficient. I think that compares well to lightweight ground-sleeping gear, at least when I factor in the benefit of a good night’s sleep.

[Douglas Frick]

I spent Monday and Tuesday in the Snowy Range (Medicine Bow National Forest, Wyoming), in winter conditions, ski-packing (AT), off-trail, solo. Destination was Browns Peak (11,722ft). Overnight low was about +15F, wind 40-50mph (trees blocked it down to about 20mph), elevation 10,800ft, and snowing. Here's the sleeping gear:

Hennessy Hammock Ultralight Explorer (34.6 oz)
Jacks R Better Nest down under-quilt (20.2 oz)
Jacks R Better Suspension System (2.0 oz)
Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D (36.9 oz)
FlexAir pillow (small: 0.7 oz)

WalMart compression tee (like Underarmor) (XL: 4.8 oz)
Patagonia Capilene expedition-weight long-sleeve zip (XL: 10.8 oz)
Patagonia Micropuff pull-over (XL: 13.2 oz)
Patagonia Capilene lightweight boxer-briefs (L: 3.0 oz)
Gore-Tex 3-layer full-zip ski pants (L: 20.6 oz)
OR Gorilla Balaclava (M: 3.0 oz, didn't sleep with 0.9 oz nose cover)
Ray-Way Bomber Hat (L: 1.0 oz)
BPL PossumDown socks (XL: 1.9 oz)
Scarpa Laser ski-boot liners (heavy)
Seirus Super Liner gloves (S/M: 1.1 oz)

I woke up sometime in the night and found that I was toasty warm. I didn't even bother going back to sleep for a while because I just wanted to enjoy rocking back and forth, listening to the wind howl outside while I was snug and warm in the hammock. I anticipated a blizzard (and got it) but I left the JRB Weather Shield bottom at home because I didn't expect the JRB Nest to wet out from cold blowing snow. (I don't think it did, although I wish now that I had weighed it after the trip.) I wore my boot liners to bed to dry them out and keep them from freezing, so I didn't bring the down booties I'd worn in the tests. Also in the tests I wore three layers on my lower body: Patagonia Capilene lightweight briefs, Duofold longjohns and BMW Cocoon pants. Because the longjohns don't work well with ski boots, I switched to just a single layer of lightweight Capilene with more coverage (boxer-briefs). I brought the BMW Cocoon pants but I didn't need to wear them; the Capilene underwear and Gore-Tex ski pants were sufficient for both day and night. (In the future I probably won't wear long underwear, except in Washington state where shorts over longjohns is the standard hiking uniform ;-)

The only difference between night and day clothing was that I wore SmartWool medium cushion ski socks instead of the PossumDown socks, traded the Patagonia Micropuff for a Montane Aero windshirt, put on REI Elements insulated mittens over the Seirus liners (which shredded with only two days of use), packed away the Ray-Way Bomber hat, added the nose cover to the OR Gorilla Balaclava, and put on Smith ski goggles. The Aero worked perfectly, allowing moisture through (no frost on the inside) while stopping heat loss to the wind. I noticed no drop in skin temperature when I was hit by wind gusts (although I had to brace myself with my poles). The Micropuff did the same in camp, so I had no need for a shell. Adding it all up, the weight of sleep-specific gear and clothing was 6.9 pounds, with a 'wasted' day-only clothing weight of 7 ounces (ski socks and windshirt).

I tied the windward side of the tarp down to a buried ski pole close to the hammock (to block the wind), while the leeward side was tied to a tree branch about 20 degrees from horizontal (to get plenty of fresh air). In the picture below, the JRB Nest has been packed away and the asymmetric hammock guys have been untied. The Hennessy hammock then makes an excellent swing seat, which provides a comfortable place to cook and relax while the hammock back and fly protect from the wind and snow. The lump to the right of the hammock under the fly is a Jacks R Better Jeff's Gear Hammock and Pack Cover, which I used in both of those roles on this trip. The small HH fly covers it sufficiently, and it didn't catch the wind or snow when I clipped the sides to one of the JRB Suspension System cords.

[Stephen Parmenter]

Thanks for the report. I have read bout the Jacks R Better system and it sounds great. Your review seems to bear that out. Here is my question for you. How bulky is your entire sleep system? It would seem as if a fairly large volume pack would be required. What size pack do you use?

[Douglas Frick]

> What size pack do you use?

Oh no, now you’re going to make me admit to using my Dana Design T-1 pack (7lb 10oz). It is over 1/3 of my base weight, and heavier than my entire winter sleep system! The pack volume is listed as 4600ci/75l, and it was fairly full. (I’m still transitioning to lightweight, and the pack will be the last item to be replaced.)

Here are the volumes of the parts. The HH Ultralight Explorer hammock and tarp and JRB Suspension System (in HH Snake Skins) and the JRB Nest (in its JRB stuff sack) together are 560ci/9.2l. I don’t like to compress the down this much, but this isn’t unreasonably tight. The addition of the HH UnderCover and UnderPad (270ci/4.4l) and a dry pair of socks makes my complete “summer” sleep system 840ci/13.8l.

The other, and biggest, winter sleep item is the Ray-Way 1-Person Deluxe Quilt with Extra Layer 3D, which is 1150ci/18.8l in the Ray-Way quilt stowbag. I don’t like to compress it more than necessary.

The Patagonia Micropuff (campwear as well as sleepwear) is 100ci/1.7l in its stuff sack. The BMW Cocoon pants (carried but unused) are a whopping 330ci/5.5l in the BMW provided (and recommended) SpinSack LITE Ultralight Stuff Sack (Size M); they could be compressed to half this size if you’re willing to risk damaging the insulation.

The total winter sleep system volume is 1800ci/30l. I didn’t pack things down as tightly as I could, so it probably took up more space than that in the pack.

[Douglas Frick]

Another overnight trip in the Medicine Bow National Forest (WY), near Rock Creek Point (10,600 ft), snowshoe-packing, off-trail, solo. Overnight low was about +10F and calm. Same sleeping gear as Hammock Warmth 6, except I needed the OR Gorilla Balaclava nose cover (in-hammock temp was about +15F). I forgot the FlexAir pillow, so I made a pillow from my fleece mittens. I brought the Eddie Bauer down booties since I didn’t have boot liners.

I was again warm. I am amazed at how well the JRB Nest works. This time I weighed it when I got home, and it had absorbed 0.9 oz of moisture; there was no apparent loss of loft. It might not have absorbed quite that much moisture if I had used the JRB Weather Shield bottom (9.5 oz), but the moisture in the Nest might have been transient rather than accumulated. There was no visible condensation/frost on the inside or outside fabric of the Nest.

I didn’t bring the HH Overcover (4.5 oz), although it would have been nice. I staked the HH tarp a few inches from the hammock, but there was still some air moving through (thus only a 5F difference between internal and external temp). If it was windy or colder I would either need the Overcover or complete face cover (add eye mask, 0.3 oz, and dust mask, 0.1 oz). IIRC, the Overcover made at least a 10F difference between internal and external temp.

[tim peterson]

I have been loving my ENO Hammock all summer now! It has got to be the single most enjoyable piece of gear i have ever owned…

You got to love those sunny afternoons just laying around!

http://www.eaglesnestoutfit.com

[Francois Berthelot]

hello! I made a “spear” type hammock with rip-stop nylon for a PCT tru-hike and it worked great! I now sleep in it 6-7 months a year, inside and outside.
I use the same knots as Ryan to tie around the ends except I make an extra loop around the fabric, it prevents catastrophic failure. I use hollow-braided 3/8″ poly rope because it’s cheap, light-weight and very strong. (lasts around 2 months). Make a loop at one end to go around trees, it flattens and rarely damages the bark.
For a fly I have an ID sil-poncho. I just clip it to the hammock lines with prusiks and a small plastic clip. Once in the hammock I clip a ridgeline with tault-line hitch and cinch it tight.
After using it for about 2000km and more then 200 camping days it never failed me. It gets cold below 40F though, so I sleep on my blue foam pad and use clothing for cold spots.
-Franc

[Francois Berthelot]

[SANDRA GILLESPIE KRAMER]

Hi, Ryan, tried to send you a PM but you haven’t completed the profile.

Do you have Ed Speer’s “Hammock Camping” book? Also, he hosts a Hammock Camping forum on yahoo.

sandy in miami

[E. A.]

Could using the heavier weight (GASP!, sinful…) emergency blankets (i.e. reflective side and red side) as hammock material save weight in winter camping in the long run?

[Douglas Frick]

>Could using the heavier weight (GASP!, sinful…) emergency blankets (i.e. reflective side and red side) as hammock material save weight in winter camping in the long run?

A reflective (radiant) heat barrier needs a bit of an air gap between you and it in order to work. If you lay down right on the blanket material you will lose heat by conduction directly to the blanket. The other problem is that this material isn’t breathable, so you will accumulate moisture underneath you.

Example: a +27F night in a +15F down sleeping bag. Result: very cold. I then added a space blanket underneath my bag. Result: still very cold and not noticeably warmer. My bag also was slightly damp underneath me in the morning.

If you added a sleeping pad between you and a hammock made from this material it might allow it to reflect some heat back to you, but I’m not sure that would beat using a breathable hammock material with a sleeping pad and space blanket suspended below, so moisture would condense as frost on the pad or the space blanket.

Now that I’ve found several warm winter hammock solutions, I’m still trying to figure out how to lighten up and (especially) reduce volume.

[E. A.]

Thanks for the thoughts, still considering hammock camping.

e

[Douglas Frick]

>Thanks for the thoughts, still considering hammock camping.

As you can see from my posts in this thread, I’m pretty happy with winter camping with a hammock. The weight may not be as light as possible (i.e., compared to a snow cave or floorless pyramid) but it’s easy to ski/snowshoe over to a bunch of trees and have your shelter set up in ten minutes.

A cheap way to try it out is to get a Byer of Maine/Amazonas Moskito Traveller hammock, which can usually be found on-line for under $20. Put a closed-cell foam or inflatable sleeping pad underneath you, and you’re set. It’s not the easiest thing to arrange the pad, but if you like hammock camping you can switch to an under-slung insulation system. Be sure to sleep at an angle! I have a ruptured disc in my back, but as long as I sleep mostly flat in the hammock I’m fine.

I hiked the Wonderland Trail around Mt. Rainier in mid-September, sharing a tent. It rained most of the time and I had gone fairly light on my sleeping gear (GG ThinLight 1/8″ with BMW TorsoLite). It reminded me just how much I dislike sleeping on the ground, even with Excedrin PM and Aleve.

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