Topic

Does bear spray work with black bears and what brand?


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Does bear spray work with black bears and what brand?

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 121 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1479688
    Nate Meinzer
    Member

    @rezniem

    Locale: San Francisco

    I must confess that I carry a small canister of mace–the size joggers use, and it is marketed for dog attacks. While it does not contain as much spray as counter assault, it is much, much lighter. Since my only problems hiking alone would be black bear, cougar, or human, I feel it is probably adequate. You don't HAVE to have the huge pepper spray can for the stuff to work. A small can will not spray as far, disperse as much or carry the punch the counter assault does, but black bears and cougars (and humans) are fairly easily deterred from attacking a human who fights back. That said, when in Grizzly country I carry counter assault and luckily have not had to use it, though there was a close call and you wouldn't catch me around Yogi without it.

    #1526088
    Just Me
    Member

    @justme

    I really am not a pro on this but I can tell you as well a dog will cause more problems than solutions I think. We had a very well trained good blue healer and she brought us a P****D off 6' grizzly bear at full run through a pine forest. We were lucky to literally feel the ground shaking a few seconds before it arrived chasing the dog. Several of our backpacks were ripped to shreds so I think we would have been toast if we tried to stand our ground. There were 3 adults, 3 kids and I had a double bitted axe in hand not much against ????LBS of mad grizzly. I do not think I will be in a party where a dog comes along unless that dog is specifically trained for bears. We went back with rifles to retrieve the leftover stuff and found it had followed our tracks up to the cut-block the vehicle was parked in which was a very freaky in itself.
    So I to ask…. is bear spray the best means of repelling a grizzly? or a 30-30? or no dog? We think it was more after the dog than us I really don't know though.

    #1526097
    Dewey Riesterer
    Member

    @kutenay

    Bear spray is sometimes effective against aggressive bears of both species and all too often is not. The point about spraying into the wind is an important one and is a major reason why I do not carry spray after testing it.

    I have had a LOT of Grizzly and even more Black Bear experience in my working and recreational life and am convinced that caution, alertness and being willing to detour or even leave a particular hike/area is FAR more likely to keep you safe than ANY spray.

    In the hands of an experienced and trained user, an appropriate firearm is, IMO, MUCH better than spray to keep you safe. I have a few custom-built Grizzlu defence guns and have been within 10 yards of a Grizzly on three separate occasions, twice armed and once alone and unarmed….I have NEVER had to shoot and have never wanted to, as I am a big wuss where bears are concerned and love them…alhtough they sure could use better hygiene!!!

    I seldom carry a gun, DO carry a little airhorn to make noise BEFORE entering an area with restricted vision and am quite confident in my methods as no bear has "et" me, yet, in over 50 years of BC bush activities.

    "Bear Encounter Survival Guide", by James Gary Shelton, buy this book and learn what he has to say, it IS the most realistic advice in print that I know of.

    #1526103
    Walter Carrington
    BPL Member

    @snowleopard

    Locale: Mass.

    In what parts of North America should bear spray be carried?
    I would guess parts of Alaska or NW Canada, and Polar bear territory, but don't really know.

    In the northeast US, there have been black bear problems in the Adirondacks (and further south NY where they are eating household garbage) and occasionally in VT and NH, but chances of an attack here are so remote that it's probably silly to carry it.

    Ontario does seem to recommend bear spray in the back country:
    http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_167687.html

    #1526199
    David Ure
    Member

    @familyguy

    Living not that far from Banff, Jasper, and having hiked the Waterton area (extreme south Alberta), I can attest that this is bear country and I always carry bear spray. Haven't had to use it, thank goodness, but I take it as a last resort precaution.

    As Kute indicated, bear awareness is the best defence.

    #1526204
    nanook ofthenorth
    BPL Member

    @nanookofthenorth

    The trick I find with bear spray is to remember that it is a repellent, not a defense. You need to remember to apply it at the trailhead and also regularly throughout the day. Make sure you get spots like the back of you knees and armpits.
    Cheers!

    #1526206
    P. P.
    Member

    @toesnorth

    Locale: PNW

    Yes, your brain and senses are the first and best line of defense. I still carry bear spray (based on research and experience) and I carry a firearm on occasion, as well.
    Kutenay, you mentioned,
    "I seldom carry a gun, DO carry a little airhorn to make noise BEFORE entering an area with restricted vision and am quite confident in my methods as no bear has "et" me, yet, in over 50 years of BC bush activities."
    About that air horn. I guess it depends on the bear (much like with other techniques). I had one come running like the horn was a freaking dinner bell!
    PS Glad to see you're still around….and on at least one bp forum. :-)

    #1526212
    James Patsalides
    BPL Member

    @jamespatsalides-com

    Locale: New England

    @Robert: I hope you're joking when you talk about using bear spray as a repellent and applying it before you head to the trail. Bear spray is basically pepper spray and you're going to REALLY suffer if you spray yourself deliberately with it! Maybe that's the point… anyone who does that probably shouldn't be on the trail in the first place.

    I think it actually IS designed as a last line of defense so you should have it immediately accessible (like on your belt) and pull it out as soon as you see a bear, be ready to spray it if (and only if) he charges you. It WILL send him running and I'm told probably do a better job than a bullet at stopping him from mauling you!

    Overall, it seems that awareness is the first line of defense, then things like air horns to pre-empt problems, then if you do see a bear, making yourself big and being noisy, finally, if you get charged use your bear spray as a last resort. And of course, don't carry in places where there is no risk of attack!

    #1526217
    nanook ofthenorth
    BPL Member

    @nanookofthenorth

    I've been trying for years to convince people that that's not the case ;)

    #1526232
    John Tyberg
    Member

    @jtyberg

    Locale: Southern California

    On my recent JMT hike, we camped up the steep incline above Shadow lake (Ten miles north of Red's). We put all of our smelly stuff in the canisters and went to bed cowboy style, without our tarps. I woke up in the middle of the night and there was a large bear standing above me, sniffing the air. I shouted and flinched backward, and the bear had a similar reaction. He was surprised at my shock and ambled down the hill when I clapped my hands and told him to go away.

    I didn't sleep well for the next few nights and I also used my tarp every night as a psychological barrier. I staked it down to the ground and tried to camp between brush, so a bear wouldn't be able to get close, unannounced.

    Anyway, my opinion on bear protection is that you should bring whatever allows you to hike/sleep peacefully, so you have enough energy to have a good experience. Having said that, I don't think you actually NEED to use any of these things. When I camped at the backpacker overflow site in Tuolomne, someone fired a gun in the middle of the night to scare off the pesty campground bears. I was far more scared of the person with the gun than the bears.

    Some guys we met and hiked with did bring a taser and pepper spray, which I think is overkill.

    #1526234
    Luke Schmidt
    BPL Member

    @cameron

    Locale: Alaska

    I think John nailed it. Your chance of being mauled is very small anywhere but if it makes the trip more enjoyable than its worth the peace of mind. I talked with a wildlife biologist who worked in Glacier. Bear spray does work and if I recall was actually first tested on black bears. Its not perfect but the only other alternative if a bear really charges is a gun which is 1)Heavy. 2)Illegal in Parks 3) Controversial and 4)Much harder for the Average Joe to us effectively.
    Personally I'd say just carry the silly can of spray. It makes most people a tad more comfortable and thats nothing to sneer at.

    #1526286
    Russell Swanson
    Member

    @rswanson

    Locale: Midatlantic

    Luke, unless I am mistaken it is now legal to carry firearms in National Parks if it is allowable in the state in which the park is located.

    As a side note of personal experience, all of the encounters I have had with bears on hikes have ended the same way- bear sees hikers and bear runs…with or without assistance from hikers. The only time I have had a bear within what I would consider 'immediate threat range' neither spray nor firearm could have been brought to bear (yuk yuk) quick enough to save me from attack.

    #1526381
    Luke Schmidt
    BPL Member

    @cameron

    Locale: Alaska

    You're right Russell(I think) but my understanding was that this applies to people with a concealed carry permit so that limits things? I will confess my deep dark secret that I own and can comforablly shoot a .454 Alaskan (BIG handgun). Not sure if I'd lug the thing around though. Maybe in a really rainy area (rain knocks down Bear Spray). Gotta admit its a lot of fun to blast hunks of maneating concrete apart with the thing though!

    #1526616
    Keith Selbo
    Spectator

    @herman666

    Locale: Northern Virginia

    Somebody warned about dis-information and man, have I seen some today. I've fired pepper spray AND handguns. No comparison. The spray recoil, if there is any, doesn't affect pointing accuracy.

    0.2% concentration for self defense against humans? That may exist, but usually the concentration is the maximum allowed by state law. Anywhere from 2% to 10%. I have purchased 10% strength here in VA. I had one go off in my pocket once. It wasn't comfortable. I think I would have hated getting any on a mucous membrane.

    Not having enough time to draw the spray. The manufacturer of my spray recommends firing it in the holster and that's how I've tested mine. You flick off the safety and fire from the hip.

    Ineffectiveness firing into the wind. Isn't that like discussing the effectiveness of firing a pistol in a hail storm? OK, the effectiveness would be greatly reduced but what about when there isn't hail? Most of the time I've spent in the woods, I would say the breeze is light and variable, even when the wind is roaring in the treetops. In those conditions, the range of the spray is adequate at worst.

    So much for my own personal experience. I do have an anecdote from someone who claimed to have run off a bear that was exhibiting stalking behavior. It was not terribly heartening. He said the bear paused, as if he was trying to remember whether or not spicy food agreed with him, and then ambled off. It left me thinking that an angry mother or even a starving bear would have made a different choice.

    #1526702
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    most of my hiking is done in grizzly country and I always carry spray, occasionally I hike in country that is grizzly (but not black bear) free and I leave the spray at home

    I agree w/ that knowing how to hike in bear country is far and away the best thing you can "carry" w/ you into the field

    I feel that I should share that I don't dismiss black bears as completely harmless- my only bad encounter w/ a bear (I've had dozens of grizzly and black bear encounters- most courtesy of working in the Great Bear and Bob Marshall Wilderness) was w/ a predatory male black bear. If I said I wasn't afraid or unnerved I would be lying- it wasn't a pleasant experience. These however are VERY rare incidents, but I can see where someone might want the peace of mind of carrying spray in black bear country- if you sleep better at night it's well worth the 13.1 oz :)

    #1526739
    Dave .
    BPL Member

    @ramapo

    Agreed. There's no need for bear spray in black bear country. No need at all. Grizzly country is another matter though.

    I was in a remote area of the Adirondacks over Labor Day weekend and I bumped into a DEC ranger at a lean-to. I asked about wildlife in the area, mostly out of curiosity about the moose population that is thriving in the region, but I also mentioned seeing bear scat. He said that bears were around and followed it up with "but if you see one, just take a picture and consider yourself lucky".

    I have to agree. That's always been my philosophy too.

    In areas that don't get much traffic, bears avoid people. In areas where bears learn to associate people with food, this is not the case. In these areas, your likelihood of having a bad bear encounter is a function of your own ignorance…in which case bear spray is a liability anyway.

    Just learn how to conduct yourself in black bear country and you'll be fine.

    #1526770
    Dewey Riesterer
    Member

    @kutenay

    Well, I have read the opinions posted here before and after my comments and it would seem that there are those who feel that there is …disinformation… being posted and that, for example, wind has no major effect on bearspray and that it WILL make bears run…..good thing that these people live where there are no Grizzlies and very few Black Bears, relatively speaking.

    NO, the spray WILL NOT always send him running and anyone who thinks that they know a lot about Grizzlies and still thinks that a snootful of cayenne pepper will drive a bear away or is MORE effective than a properly placed bullet of appropriate power simply does not know whereof they speak.

    I have encountered bears, of both species, above timberline and in strong winds as well as on the BC coast in galeforce storms. The spray IS useless and a liability then and also in the strong drafts that blow down mountain streams, you know, the same ones with the two foot deep bear trails worn beside them….I can give you specific names if you doubt my word.

    To "fire" a canister of bear spray from your hip is foolish and may well blind you; only a total novice would even consider such a move. The bear, IF, aggressive, is not going to be detered by a wide fog of spray and you NEED to aim it into his facial area, for it to be effective.

    When, I read bear threads on the 'net, I often wonder just how much experience most posters really have; the "blind faith" put in rumours, comments from people who have no real bear experience and spray is just amazing to me. Buy and read the book I recommend and you will be FAR better prepared for bear encounters than with net gossip and shooting from the hip.

    #1526843
    Dave .
    BPL Member

    @ramapo

    You know, I had a minor epiphany last night. Bear spray works on bears, but it doesn't address the human problem at the root of threads like this.

    And the reason threads like this chap my a$$ so much is not the egregious and objective levels of ignorance that they often contain. Rather, it's because these threads, conciously or not, are motivated by the human belief that walking through a wilderness landscape should be approximately as dangerous as walking through a suburban mall. How awful and backwards.

    One of the things I love most about wilderness is that it's totally indifferent to me and the human condition. And that's what makes experiencing it worth while. It will not be made safe unless the wild is taken out of the wilderness (which would rather defeat the purpose, eh?). It goes about its business and does what it does and, while we're out there, contingency is a real thing. Nature doesn't care about you and me and pepper spray won't change that. Period.

    If this is an unpleasant thought for you, maybe you shouldn't be a backpacker. It might be more appropriate to take up knitting or badminton. After all, despite what you might believe, you can't buy or consume your way out of this dynamic. It's what makes nature natural.

    You can, however, learn to respect this dynamic and recognize your place in it. You can educate yourself and learn how to properly conduct yourself when in the wilderness and this will decrease the chances of having a bad bear encounter. And, yes, this includes knowing when to carry bear spray and how to use it. Beyond that, bear attacks are as probalistic as anything else: car crashes, heart attacks, lightning strikes, etc. They're always, to a certain extent, going to be out of or hands. Perfect safety and guarantees of continued long life are dangerous illusions.

    Short of getting on board with that, you might want to look into carrying an ultralight rocket launcher or paving all the forests and replacing them with nice, safe shopping malls.

    #1526853
    Joe Clement
    BPL Member

    @skinewmexico

    Locale: Southwest

    Cool! I want an ultralight rocket launcher. Can I get it with a cuban carry case?

    #1526856
    Jeff K
    Spectator

    @jeff-k

    Locale: New York

    Wikipedia has a list of fatal bear attacks.

    Fatal Bear Attacks

    I found it interesting that the number of black vs. brown bear deaths was close to equal. "Between 1900 and 2003 there were about 52 recorded deaths due to black bears, 50 due to brown bears and 5 due to polar bears." One could argue that there are significantly more black bears in most places that affects the data. The population density of people in the bear's territory also makes a huge difference. Who knows how complete this list is, but you might find it interesting. According to this the average bear deaths in North America is about 3 per year. I didn't count, but it seems a lot of those were in Canada.

    Someone mentioned it earlier, but Lyme disease is probably something more deadly than bears. Although, death as a result of Lyme disease is rare, about 25,000 people are infected every year.

    This chart is something I found interesting. And this map shows the relative risk in different areas in the US.

    I have a fraction of the experience that most of you have in the wilderness so please don't mistake this as advice. I am not saying don't bring bear spray. But ounce for ounce, bug spray might save more lives than bear spray.

    #1526867
    Nate Meinzer
    Member

    @rezniem

    Locale: San Francisco

    There are not only significantly more black bears in more densely populated areas, there are significantly more black bears total. Black bears are not dangerous to full grown adults.

    Interesting about the ounce-to-ounce bug spray vs. bear spray. Also, interesting to note the fretting over bears versus the lack of fretting over diseases one can acquire in the backcountry.

    I'm much more paranoid on the highway to the trailhead than on the trail. That is by far the most dangerous aspect of this activiy.

    #1526871
    Ali e
    Member

    @barefootnavigator

    Locale: Outside

    ASPEN, Colo. — A man was attacked by a large black bear in his Aspen home in the latest in a string of violent encounters with the animals this summer in the mountain community.

    Colorado Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton said the man had gone to the first floor of his home to check on his three barking dogs when the bear struck him in the head.

    Hampton said the man did not suffer life-threatening injuries and was being treated at a local hospital. His name was not released.

    Wildlife officers are searching for the bear in the neighborhood and have set up a trap in the area. The bear will be euthanized when it is found.

    "These are large, powerful animals. You certainly don't want to end up in this situation, especially in your home," Hampton said.

    Wildlife officers in and near the resort town about 200 miles west of Denver have killed at least nine bears so far this summer because of their aggressive behavior. Area police have responded to about 200 bear sightings in August, up from 16 last August.

    Hampton said "it's been incredibly frustrating" for wildlife officers to have to deal with the increased bear activity and have to euthanize the animals because people are not disposing of trash and storing food properly.

    In addition to trash, Hampton said an abundance of fruit and crabapple trees in Aspen are also attracting bears. He said bears are particularly active now because they are preparing for hibernation, consuming about 20,000 calories a day and spending 20 hours a day eating.

    #1526874
    Dewey Riesterer
    Member

    @kutenay

    …Black Bears are not dangerous to full grown adults…

    Nonsense, TWO adults, including one large, young, wilderness rancher have been KILLED by Blacks here in BC recently and several people mauled. ALL repeat ALL bears ARE dangerous animals and Grizzlies are EXTREMELY dangerous and attacks are increasing here.

    Again, GET Shelton's book and learn some FACTS before getting into trouble.

    #1526875
    Aaron Lastname
    Member

    @cloudveil9

    "Black bears are not dangerous to full grown adults."

    Seriously? They've attacked / killed / eaten their share…

    #1526878
    Nate Meinzer
    Member

    @rezniem

    Locale: San Francisco

    I should qualify my statement. Black bears are *generally* not dangerous to full grown adults.

    Would you say bees are dangerous to adults? They kill their fair share of adults.

    What about dogs? Are dogs generally dangerous to full-grown adults. Ditto that.

    I guess I was just trying to express that black bears are generally not dangerous as compared to grizzly bears. Most people do not take bear spray into black bear country.

    Also, where do you find this young rancher killed by a black bear? Can't seem to find any news on it anywhere. Though, in Ontario, a woman was killed hiking by a black bear recently.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 121 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...