XUL First Aid Kit

[Unknown abc]

C'mon!
Is the sports tape that adhesive with benzoin or not!?!
Some say you have to have a tape adherant to get it to stick, then you say it's easier to remove than duct tape!

What then?

[Joe Westing]

Evan –

No need to get excited. Leukotape has many benefits over duct tape. It is soft, breathable, and cushioned. Most importantly, it is vastly durable and will stay on your feet for days, even without tincture of benzoin. The benzoin is optional (leukotape reportedly sticks very well on its own), but it will even further increase the durability of the leukotape. I personally have used duct tape exclusively in the past, but I am excited about trying out Leukotape or a similar product. I had trouble getting the duct tape even to stay on my feet for a single day of hiking. Sure, duct tape is multiple-use but why use an inferior product if you don't have to.

You should read the Reader Reviews here on Leukotape for more info:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=3819&cat=First%20Aid%20and%20Survival%20Gear%20%26%20Accessories&cid=58

Also, check out this article by Ryan Jordan:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/essentials_jordan.html

[Angela Zukowski]

Evan – I have used leukotape on its own, and with a fabric tape underneath it. The leukotape does have a tendency to peel off a bit if you are not careful when adhering it. The fabric tape used underneath is breathable, peels off much easier and more gently, and ensures that the leukotape does not peel off.

Read this link – it has a zinc oxide adhesive. And relax.

http://www.wisdomking.com/product12127.html

And yeah – it IS easier to remove than duct tape. I would never use a strip of duct tape tightly adhered to my knee for over an hour. I don't know what kind of duct tape you use, but the stuff in my house would hurt.

[Unknown abc]

Alright, I will buy some similair stuff at a local store and try it out.

cheers

[Dale Wambaugh]

I wouldn't call a handful of bandaids and a few analgesics a first aid kit.

I think ultralight is a lot of fun and an interesting challenge, but these "first aid kits" aren't much to brag about.

First of all what is the goal? A blister kit? No problem, but you won't attend to any serious injury with it.

A group can split up some supplies. Going solo is more of a challenge I think. I can also tell you that any backwoods emergency will be aided by improvised materials and methods. If someone is really hurt, it's time to use all the resources you have. If you have an arterial bleed, you'll be using everything you can get your hands on.

As for keep things sterile, it's kind of a game. Hopefully the first layer of bandage will be clean, but once you have pressure on the wound, you won't want to start pulling improvised bandages off. No one's hands or clothing will be anything close to sterile and the wound won't be anyway. You won't have the means to irrigate and clean a wound. It is first aid, so you button it up, keep the patient from going into shock, and get some help ASAP.

Gloves are great, but they are more to protect the first aid provider. Face it, if your kid is spurting blood, you aren't going to stop to put gloves on. If you are treating sexually active patients, you might want some protection on hands and eyes.

If you have something like a sprain or a closed fracture, improvising works just fine. You can use straps, belts, clothing, bandanas, tree branches whatever you can find to stabilize a fracture. In Scouts I was trained to handle a broken femur with a couple branches and a load of triangular bandages— read "Scout neckerchiefs." We could even apply traction with that setup.

BTW, I carry duct tape and I think it is a great improvising tool. but I don't want ot be around when the doctor takes it off you [OUCH]

As for analgesics, 400mg of ibuprofen is for a headache, not serious inflammation. The magic number for a sprain or similar injury is more like 2600mg a day.

I would carry more anitbiotic creams and cleaning agents for blisters and minor cuts. Add a compress or two for large injuries, knowing that you will have to improvise past that point anyway.

There are some military clotting agents available that I think are a great idea for backwoods use. QuikClot is one product and it comes in 25 and 50 gram packets. If everyone in a group is carrying one, you have a good supply.

The modern Army personal kits include the clotting pad and some gauze to hold it in place.

Someone wrote about using a feminine napkin for a compress. They are clean and work well and they are easy to come by. The compresses in a military kit didn't look much different.

I like the Adventure Medical 3. and .5 kits for a base and jam them full of more meds like Benadryl and more topical antibiotics. These kits are for small wound care and the added meds provide analgesics for inflammation, swelling and pain, minor allergic reaction

The best anti-diarrhoeal I have found is Immodium AD. It
comes in foil packets, so it's easy to haul. I've never had to take more than one dose. The idea of flushing the bad stuff out kind of makes sense to me, but past a couple good movements, you can dangerously deplete your electrolytes. You aren't going to hike far with that kind of problem. My daughter had an e.coli infection last year. You have no idea how hard and fast something like that can hit you. You *will* spew until you drop. Time to call in the 'chopper!

Training is the bottom line. If you know what to do, you will know what to take. I'm NOT saying you need a 5 pound kit, but 6 ounces or so is a good weight investment. I'm sorry, but I think these 1/2 ounce kits are risky business.

[Roger Caffin]

> I wouldn't call a handful of bandaids and a few analgesics a first aid kit.

Well, I would call them a FIRST aid kit. I am sure I could deal with most of our incidents with just that. The question is really whether you want to play doctor and go beyond FIRST aid.
And that … is quite another question.

Cheers

[Dale Wambaugh]

By all means, hike your own hike! I'll be glad to share if the need arises :)

If you want to risk your own health, you're an intelligent adult and you can understand and assess the risks, BUT, this business of publishing short lists of supplies and calling it a first aid kit skirts on irresponsibility.

I defy you to find any organization involved in first aid, wilderness medicine, search and rescue, or recreation that would classify a few bandaids and a couple packets of ointment as first aid preparedness.

I have better resources for first aid in my home, my vehicle and workplace in the middle of a large metropolitan area, let alone halfway up a mountain with no direct means of communication. If I need those items at home, 2 miles from a major medical center, how does it make any sense whatsoever that I shouldn't have some of them when I am hiking?

First aid in the strictest sense means taking care of the most immediate needs until medical help can be secured. On the most basic level that is treating for shock, bleeding, heartbeat and breathing. I would put heat stroke, dehydration, and hypothermia close behind. Next come fractures, dislocations and sprains. From there it is more mundane tasks like blisters, minor cuts and abrasions, splinters, bug bites, sunburn, etc. The "kits" mentioned for XUL only address the latter and most minor issues.

I have to agree that the meds are crossing the line and shouldn't be offered in the strictest sense of first aid. I'm sure the Red Cross would have kittens over it, and the lawyers would queue up if anything went wrong. For my own needs and those of my immediate family, there are no issues.

Again, I understand the XUL game and really appreciate the changes in beliefs and perceptions it takes to get a light kit together. I do think we should encourage people to go out prepared with the basic essentials.

And what in the world are the two clothespins for?

[Unknown abc]

I agree with you Dale on two things:

1."I do think we should encourage people to go out prepared with the basic essentials."

Yes, and I feel as though this is enough for me. If you know how to improvise, you don't a 6oz. kit. My old kit weighed 5oz. and I thought that was ultralight and was too light to be noticeable, but I’ve never used anything in it except a couple band-aids and some triple-anti-ointment. Take a look at Ryan Jordan's kit! I modeled mine after his (although I have had some difficulty accepting the Luekotape over Duct-tape concept). I have had 2 Red Cross First Aid trainings and am CPR Certified; I feel confidedent using this kit.

2."And what in the world are the two clothespins for?"

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as you when I went to revise this kit. I thought just because other more experienced backpackers had them in there kits, it would be good to have along. But again, why?

I have decided to go with the Leukotape P Sports Tape w/o the benzoin, thx to all who helped me move out of the "dark ages w/duct tape"!

And yes, Dale, I ALWAYS hike my own hike! lol.

-Evan

[John S.]

Using duct tape is not living in the dark ages. It is useful for a whole variety of things and has more uses than Leukotape. Leukotape is just better for blisters or that is all I would use it for. It's too expensive to be mending boots or shelters with.

In fact, just last year an article was presented to Wilderness Medicine docs from a well known emergency room physician, on the many uses of duct tape in wilderness first aid.

[MIchael MacCormac]

I agree on needing more than bandaids & blister treatment. The max daily dose for ibuprofen is 2400 mg (not 2600 mg). 400 mg is a joke. Anti-diarrheals are good but I would not take it with an E Coli infection- most infectious causes of diarrhea should not be treated with lomotil/imodium- use rehydration. Need tweezers for ticks as well as splinters. A quikclot is a good idea particularly with a group (&any one with a axe). The adventure med kits are a good start but i would up the meds, add immodium/benadryl/pepto, a larger sterile dressing and a quikclot. I also add concentrated betadine (for irrigation), a 10cc syringe, a scalpel blade, rehydration powder. You need to check the medical status of those with you for other items (inhalers, epi pen?).

[Unknown abc]

I bring only 400mg of Ibuprofen because that is enough to knock out a severe headache for me(remember-i'm just a 13y/o boy scout)and my mom doesn't really want me carrying more than that and 1000mg of Tylenol which is more than enough to take care of severe pain in me.

This is only personal meds, I would never administer meds to someone who's medical history I don't know, especially young men my age.

-Evan

[Daniel Fosse]

I'm likely just repeating stuff at this point. But I posted on your "Tylenol AND Ibuprofen? " thread "I also highly recommend an anti-diarrheal med like, loperamide hydrochloride (Imodium), or at least some bismuth subsalicylate tabs (Pepto)."

The Generic Imodium tabs I got from Wallgreens are very tiny and in foil bubbles. I haven't weighed them but I bet 2 are barely a gram.

If you get the green apple splats and they won't stop, not only will this totally ruin your trip but you could become dangerously dehydrated.

For a few grams or less, it's a great insurance policy to have in your med kit.

FYI, the directions will likely tell you to take 2 on the first dose. I'd recommend taking one and wait a while. Too much loperamide hydrochloride plus dehydration will give you the opposite problem.

Some people go with the Pepto tabs, you know the pink stomach cure-all chew tabs. They cover many gastro-intestinal issues and could therefore be considered multi purpose.

But if you are hiking in Baking Soda, you already have an anti-acid. The Imodium is a far faster and more effective anti-diarrheal.

[Mary D]

'…I would never administer meds to someone who's medical history I don't know, especially young men my age." Evan, you must have had a good first aid course!

In the excellent mountaineering first aid course I took (too many years ago, unfortunately, although I've been getting regular info updates from my son-in-law-the-ER-physician), it was pointed out that there are serious legal issues with giving your medications to another person, whether or not that person is a minor. We were told to use the medications in the victim's first aid or use nothing at all.

The point was also stressed that the first-aid you carry is what gets used on you if you're hurt. This is something to think about when making up your own kit.

I know that if Michael used his betadyne on me, he'd provoke a serious allergic reaction!

Evan, one thing on the "if I never use, leave it at home" criterion. Also consider what you'd do if you did need an item (say an anti-diarrheal) and didn't have it! Could you evacuate yourself between several-times-per-hour cat-hole diggings? It's easier to improvise for serious injury (when you don't mind cutting up some of your gear if that's required) than it is for the more common ailments!

[Brad Groves]

Just for the sake of discussion… I think you could argue that a "XUL" first aid kit would be no first aid kit at all. Most of the things we carry in a first aid kit are convenience items in some sense. Anything absorbent can be used as a bandage. Want it sterile? Put it (ie bandana, shred of shirt) in boiling water and wring. For more absorbency cover w/more (unsterile) cloth. Want to clean a wound? Use some Everclear from your stove fuel. Cut a finger? Use a strip of cloth if you like, cover with a 1/3 width of duct tape. Come to think of it, the Everclear could also act as a quasi-analgesic… Of course, it all depends on trip length. Having the runs for a day or two probably won't be a big deal. Ibuprofen… like someone already said, a realistic (Rx) dose for controlling pain is 2400-3200mg/day. Benadryl is nice, necessary for someone w/asthma/allergies, probably not medically necessary for many.

My personal kit is a little more involved than what I mention above, but I think it's important to consider what is truly necessary vs convenience. Prevention is the best medicine. The best first aid kit (to paraphrase from someone else) is the one in your head.

[Devin Montgomery]

>Just for the sake of discussion… I think you could argue that a "XUL" first aid kit would be no first aid kit at all.

The squabbler in me:

I also doubt that the application of the "XUL" label to this, or any other first-aid kit has any real meaning. What differentiates XUL (<5lb skin-out), SUL (<5 lb pack), and UL (<10 lb pack) hiking isn't generally typified by what someone carries in their first-aid kit. The kit provided at the beginning of this thread could be included in a gear list for any of these categories. An XUL gear list in particular is not simply a collection of "XUL gear" (whatever that means), it is instead a list of gear, that on a whole, falls under a standard requiring the highest level of scrutiny to be paid to each piece included.

If calling this an "XUL first-aid kit" means that it is one that would likely be included in an XUL gear list, I also doubt that. If one has pared down their gear that far, I doubt they would include 2 clothespins. They might, but this would be an exception, a relative luxury, rather than a choice that exemplified their gear choices.

The less retentive part of me:

When the OP said this kit was XUL, he just meant he thought it was really-super-light.

[John S.]

I sorta wonder if dude meant safety pins and not clothes pins…

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