Dec 2, 2005 at 11:48 am #1217278
there has been alot on modifying a coleman Xtreme stove, so I tried to strip one of my canister stoves, my coice was a MSR windpro.
with a total weight of 5.7oz with stand
I dont know what others are using for the Xtreme stand so I made up my own design
I tried using a pocket rocket head, it worked but, idont know
I used a soup can as my pot stand for stripped stove.
how to attach stove to stand:
push the stove up with botom part going between the two tabs, then twist it so the stand is sitting on the tabs and the fuel line is going through the port
thats burnt glue from the label on the can
here is the stove being used with a windscreen the same dimensions as the BPL Ti screen
I admit my stove stand is a little crude because all I used was a knife to cut it, but it gets the job done and is only one ounce
the final stove weight is 5.7oz
stand 1ozDec 2, 2005 at 12:01 pm #1346364
That is very trick, Ryan. Stand and windscreen as one. Now, if you can come up w/ a way to keep the cartridge inverted while allowing full operation, you will have come up w/ a system that will adapt it to efficient cold weather operation.
If you can achieve this, I would consider this along w/ the Xtreme for the Winter SUL challenge.
The Xtreme’s Powermax cartridge doesn’t require the inversion due to it’s particular technology. By the way, I see no reason your stand couldn’t work with the Xtreme.Dec 2, 2005 at 12:06 pm #1346365
dose inverted mean upside down?
and it dose need a seperate windscreen, I initially attempted a stand/ windscreen combo, but It did not work well because for it to work, you need alot of ventilation so I have alot of holes, but it is compatible with the BPL ti windscreen, I dont have one but the windscreen I show being used is the same dimensions, at first I just tried to test the stove, but it was very windy, so I thought, why not see if it works w/ the Ti screen so I looked up the dimensions and made one from an oven liner.Dec 2, 2005 at 12:36 pm #1346366
Inversion does indeed mean upside down. And it’s important to the Winterization of this stove–otherwise it would simply be no better than a normal all-in-one canister stove.
My mistake about the intregal windscreen although
I think that might be an idea to explore in the future.Dec 2, 2005 at 1:01 pm #1346367
Nice job on the stove. Also, check if your camera has a macro mode. It allows you to focus when really close up such as in one picture that is 6 from the top.
Can you explain how keep the fuel inverted allows the stove to work in cold temps?
BobDec 2, 2005 at 1:01 pm #1346368
Well the stove has a long fuel line and when the weight of the full pot is on the stove the canister can be turned upside down and the line just twists a little. but when the pot is not on the stove and you try to twist it the stove falls over, so you may have to light it right side up and then put the pot on and then turn it over and make sure you turn it back over before removing the pot or else once you do the stove will fall over.
when the canister is upside down it will not stan dup on its own so you need to hold t or put some sort of suport on the side canister is tippingDec 2, 2005 at 1:02 pm #1346369
@bfornshellLocale: Southern Texas
Nice job Ryan. I have tried a few versions with cat food cans on the Xtreme stove. Didn’t get as much weight reduction as I was looking for.
I like the MSR Wind Pro, my old MSR Ripid Fire model is the old version of the Wind Pro.
I converted my Rapid Fire to the PowerMax canister. I would have converted the Wind Pro but I don’t own one and didn’t really want to buy another stove.
Modified Rapid Fire/PowerMax
Take a look at the Coleman Exponent F1 Ultralight Stove. It connects to the canister like the Pocket Rocket. The Coleman F1 weighs 2.7oz.Dec 2, 2005 at 1:04 pm #1346370
Thanks Bob, I will check, I have been having this problem alot and I cant focus well. But you can obviously tell I am not a photographer from my pics.Dec 2, 2005 at 1:37 pm #1346372
Bob–there’s info on this on the site. I think it was bandied about on the SUL winter challenge thread (lots of luck going through that sucker) and possibly in articles by either Roger Caffin or Ryan Jordan. Also there was a stove thread. It has to do (I believe) w/ the isopropane mix seperating out (more) in really cold temperatures which means that in using the canister upright, you end up exhausting one component of the fuel mix and not the other. I don’t have the physics of it on hand, I’m rather distracted geeting ready for a ski trip and finishing a job at the same time.
Cold weather Alpinists have been using the trick of inverting their canisters for some time.
Again, the Powermax canisters don’t have this issue because the fuel intake within the canister goes to the very bottom.
Bill probably knows, as well.Dec 2, 2005 at 1:42 pm #1346373
I am going to post some pictures on how to keep the canister upside down. and when using it up sidedown, there was a gert increase in boiling speed even though this time I dident have a lid to the pot. and I found that after turning off the feul it burned for about 10 seconds longer.
thanks Bill for the link.
but I am afraid that since the wind pro’s fuel line is so long to start with, that with the extra length it may get kind of crazy. there are ways to invert the windpro because of the long feul line. and according to Kevin, this is usable in the winter.
again I will post some pics laterDec 2, 2005 at 2:03 pm #1346377
The other thing I wanted to add is I seem to remember that you can sometimes have flaring issues and post shutdown burning when using the canisters upside down. I don’t know how much of a issue this is. The Xtreme apparently does not have these issues.
Ryan, why don’t you put the canister in the freezer for a bit and run some tests with your stripped down stove. Also with your stand, run the stove for
extended times ( pretend your melting snow–put some ice in the pot) and see if there are any problems w/ metal fatigue in your stand associated with long exposure to high heat.
Perhaps this is a system to incorporate in the Winter SUL list(s)Dec 2, 2005 at 2:06 pm #1346378
here are a few options
hold the canister
lean it against something on the side it is tipping
turn it alittle more so it is almost inverted
Dec 2, 2005 at 2:09 pm #1346379
good idea Kevin,
my freezer is 0 degrees so how long do you recomend me leaving it in there
I also like to mention that it is 31 degrees out here right now.
Ill try to run it for 20 – 25 min.Dec 2, 2005 at 3:24 pm #1346382
I left the canister in the freezer for 30 minutes and then filled up my pot with ice.
I used my third method of inverting the canister and it melted the ice fine with no effect on the can suport.
sorry I did not time this, but I think it may be able to work for RJ winter trip.Dec 2, 2005 at 3:38 pm #1346383
Ryan–leave in freezer overnight. test again w/ your rig. In 3 or 4 sessions, burn the stove until canister empty. If you have a fresh canister, time the whole thing. Time for boiling w/ ice to boiling.
Time how long the canister lasts( inverted).
I’m trying to accelerate the testing process to see if this is safely viable for RJ and to get some fuel consumption figures. Roger Caffin suggests not running the Xtreme flat out for max. fuel efficiency. I wonder if this could apply to this stove as well. it’s possible that the fuel consumption rate of the Wind Pro could neutralize the weight savings in the stove.
I’m sure we can take up a collection for the experiment to pay for the canister(s). In the name of Science!Dec 2, 2005 at 3:49 pm #1346384
Ok, the canister I have been using was not full, but Im sure I have one somewhere.
I will now have something to do tomorow.
to know if one 8oz canister will be enough, I need to know how many liters will be melted/boiled on RJs trip
also I would like to mention that these tests will be at sea level, and that canister stoves work better a higher altitudes.Dec 2, 2005 at 3:53 pm #1346385
RF–yes, air pressure can be our friend. We can extrapolate. Read my last post again, I added some stuff)Dec 2, 2005 at 4:00 pm #1346386
how many liters of ice should I melt/boil?
and why are we boiling? why not just melt?
It says on the MSR site that on one 8oz fuel canister, you can boil 15.8 liters of water, I wonder how many boiled from snow we can get?
Bill, how much weight would you think it would be to change wind pro to Xtreme canisters?Dec 2, 2005 at 4:12 pm #1346387
Well RJ will be cooking, too so we need some boiling thrown in the mix.Melt in sessions enough to get 2 Liters of water.Remember, we are giving RJ a 1 liter pot on the trip. Mix Ice w/ some water—-snow melts faster than ice. Use your judgement on ratio of ice to water. Chill the Canister if you can between sessions. Bring some “snowmelt” water to a boil (enough to make a meal) between “snow melting” sessions. it’s a lot of time to ask of you, but if you can do it. Repeat as needed to canister exhaustion. Let us know size and make of canister. Keep good records! Let us know how many liters you can produce from one canister.
If you time for 2 Liters we can correlate somewhat with Ryan Jordan’s tests in melting snow.
Good luck. I’m off on a ski trip for a couple of days.
I might have some wireless opportunities to check in on things sometime over the weekend.Dec 2, 2005 at 5:07 pm #1346391
I will test the amout per canister tomorow but tonight I just melted/boiled 2 liters of water in a 1 liter pot
the first liter was melted in 8 min
and boiled in 12min
the second melted in 6min and boiled in 10min.
each started with 6oz of water.Dec 2, 2005 at 6:15 pm #1346396
Ryan F.—good to read before doing rest of test.Dec 2, 2005 at 7:10 pm #1346402
@bfornshellLocale: Southern Texas
Ryan, 1st you will need a complete Value & Hose Assembly from an Xtreme Stove. You can buy that as a repair part from Coleman but I have no idea how much it costs. That part will weigh 46.2 grams in its stock form.
When I converted the Rapid Fire to the Xtreme Hose Assembly I had to leave the hose as long as you see it because the “crimp” device used to mate the two hoses needed that much room. I could not removed the legs from the Rapid Fire like you did on your WindPro. Since the legs on your stove are off the crimp device may not have anything in its way and your line should be much shorter on the WindPro. The fittings (crimp + fittings) necessary to add the gas line will weigh about 34.8 grams. This gives you a total of 81 grams to make the change.
As a side note the modified gas line “complete” to covert the PowerMax to my Rapid Fire weighed less than the stock Rapid Fire.Dec 3, 2005 at 7:40 am #1346411
Sorry guy’s I dont have a full canister, to test how much can be melted per canister.
but I probably can test the fuel used per use. do I weigh the canister before and after use to tell oz used?Dec 3, 2005 at 7:46 am #1346412
and after converting it to a powermax canister, it may still be lighter than the Xtreme. But I dont know if I could do this well.Dec 3, 2005 at 2:14 pm #1346433
if anyone else has a wind pro stove, and a full canister, could you please test melting snow or ice for me and see how many liters you can melt on a single MSR 8oz canister based on the tests Ryan J did HERE?
I think my stripped stove has the same or better efficiency than the stocked wind pro, so if you invert the canister, the tests with a normal wind pro will be the same, as long as you use a windscreen. please, im sorry I cant.
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