BP 101 – Washing Your Bottom W/O TP

[W I S N E R !]

"Still, I think you would have a better time convincing the general hiking public to bag out their TP than to use their hands."

You're probably right.
I really don't get people, though.
We're animals! We make smelly messes and funny noises! Don't be afraid!

One thing that I think hasn't really been clarified…(how do I put this without getting censored?)

Mike might mention some of this in his article, I forget…(If not then I'm the smart one!)

Unlike the toilet, when assuming a proper squat your plumbing is aligned well (I think this is the posture our bodies were made for- think about it) and you should get very little poo, if any, on yourself. Then there's not much to wipe!

It's not like you're using your bare hand and some water and scooping globs off yourself here folks!!!

A few small rocks or leaves or some grass and a deft hand should be all you need- there's practically nothing left by the time you wash yourself- if you even have to (not excluding hands).

I would argue it's no different than using TP at home and then jumping in the shower and properly washing.

I'm assuming the "civilized" amongst us at least do this, right?
Is it scary? I hope not!

SAME THING!!!

[EndoftheTrail]

"It's not like you're using your bare hand and some water and scooping globs off yourself here folks!"

Indeed.

[Dave T]

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[John S.]

Can't believe y'all are still talking about the anti-tp thing. Please give it a rest.

[W I S N E R !]

Cranky.

[Chad Miller]

Damn Joe, if you don't like the topic then doesn’t read it. It's not like you're paying to use the forums and have a right to complain about its content.

Quit your winning and go read something else.

[Brad Groves]

FWIW, I usually just use fallen leaves. Green are nice but rare. Decomposing leaves work just fine. No plucking off live growth. That said, live plucked ferns can be quite nice…

[Richard Matthews]

Say it ain't so, Joe!!!

My transition started with sking. The obvious choice was carry the TP out or use snow. I used snow and from there progressed to 3 season hiking.

I still carry TP for dry camps and when I answer the call at night.

Ben and Mike are right — this is technique that will make your life better.

[Anonymous]

Anybody here ever try wiping their butt with a piece of Sierra granite or a handful of pine needles? That's about all you can find up above timberline down there.

[EndoftheTrail]

"That's about how you can find up above timberline."

Not true. If you look just a bit, you'll find your hands there too — ready to do their duty — just like with your ancestors in the past million-plus years. It's hard only if you make it so — like using granite or pine needles. :)

[Anonymous]

I can't quite resolve the embedded particles of fecal matter yet, Ben, with the amount of H2O available for the job. Maybe someday. In the interim, I'll go with TP, burn, clean up with a wet wipe (which does get packed out because it won't burn), and continue to analyze the whole thing. Backcountry is different from forecountry, where copious amounts of warm water and soap are available. I've used the method there and understand very well the theoretical superiority of the method. My take on revered ancestors is that a whole bunch of them died and the ones that survived had very strong immune systems, lots stronger than ours. Great thread, BTW. Kudos to you and Mike!

[Mike Clelland]

Tom wrote:
"Anybody here ever try wiping their butt with a piece of Sierra granite"

No worries!

Granite rocks are totally fine. Search out a handful BEFORE squating down to pooop. I've wiped with confidence and comfort many times with alpine rocks above 12,000 feeet!

[Mike Clelland]

Tom,

Here's what you need to do.

1) read the article:

2) go camping without toilet paper.

That's it, do it once, and camping is simplified.

I have taken HUNDREDS of students into the wilderness, and there is NO TOILET paper for 30 days at a time, and NOBODY COMPLAINS – EVER! It is so easy.

I can tell (from your previous posting) that you just don't believe it can be done. But I work for a HUGE school (NOLS), and we do it all the time, and have for 44 years!

Benjamin and I are sharing our very real experience. After going without toilet paper, It doesn't even cross my mind to take it.

Benjamin and I are preaching very similar techniques. I have used his, and it works fine. I camp a lot in terrain with snow – so I clean up with water too!

Read the article, here's the LINK:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

[EndoftheTrail]

Not to be boastful, but I think Brother Mike and I show dedication and enthusiasm that put even Jehovah Witnesses to shame! :)

[Anonymous]

Mike,
I went back and read the article a second time. I read it when it first came out, too. A couple things come back to mind with my memory refreshed: 1) My experience burning TP has been different from yours. I have no trouble getting all but a very small portion that sticks to the first swipe to burn, and that will be composted by next season. I know because I have checked sites used the previous year many times out of an abiding interest in this subject. The trick is to flake the paper out in the hole with a twig before lighting. 2) Running around collecting enough suitable rocks seems to me pretty involved, as does using them and disposing of them. I think you said to allow 10 minutes for the process. It takes me less than half that time. I find squirreling the ones that won't fit in the cathole away under bushes especially problematic. Some little critter that is half starved will sniff the stuff out, make a meal out of the it, and then stick his snout in the nearest water source with predictable results. I have followed this thread and its recommended method(s) with a lot of interest and have concluded not that it can't be done, but that it is not a better solution to the problem than what I am already doing. Heresy, perhaps, but I can guarantee you no one happening on my carefully hidden dump sites would have a clue what transpired there, unless they were sharp eyed enough to see ever so slightly disturbed soil around the border of a large rock, gone with the next rain. As for Sierra granite, I have been backpacking down there for 34 years, most of it at or above timberline and while, if you make a project out of it, you can find enough smooth stones to do the job, as a general rule the stuff is pretty weathered. More time than I would want to spend, for sure. I think that if the object is to minimize our impact, the two methods are not that far apart. Beyond that, we're quibbling about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, IMO.
Thanks again for a very interesting thread, one and all.

[Mike Clelland]

Tom,

Since you've read the article, here's the one thing you need to do.

1) go camping without toilet paper.

I can read between the lines, and I feel pretty sure you've never tried it. You are WAY over analizing the process. It's very easy.

[Ashley Brown]

> You are WAY over analizing the process

LOL! I think you mean analyzing, but that is a hilarious pun!

[Mike Clelland]

Oooooops!

[Angela Zukowski]

Whoever said that we are just smelly, dirty animals and we should embrace that – I AGREE! Bodily fluids, germs and odors are a fact of life and despite trying mightily to overcome that in recent centuries with chemicals, sprays, perfumes, wipes, and Charmin… if you look at the big picture, all you need in life is some soap and water and you'll be fine.

This whole squeamishness about no TP is very first-world. As I'm sure it's been pointed out already, there are people all over the world not using toilet paper on a daily basis. And I've held hands with some of them :)

ps: When backpacking, I swing both ways (and pack it out when using TP) but on a regular basis I always do a very thorough bathing of certain areas with a limited amount of soap and water – using my hands. So what's the difference between washing up at the end of the day and washing up immediately after? I'd say for me personally, not a huge difference. You're going to be smelly and germy regardless of whether you use toilet paper or leaves.

edited to add pps: This thread has been really entertaining… and educational! I liked learning about the Romans :)

[EndoftheTrail]

Good points, Angela!

One thing though, much of the so-called First World — Europe and Japan — have already moved on to bidets — which is much more sanitary than mere wiping with paper. All the places I stayed at in Spain featured bidets — even the crappy $16 a night Madrid hotel right above the shop with the huge neon sign flashing SEX all night.

Even in Turkey, a comparatively poorer country, all the sit-down toilets feature a "poor man's" version of a bidet: their toilets are fitted with a metal tube that connects with the cold water pipe to allow for washing.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Great thread!

I have NEVER used toilet paper.

[Mike Clelland]

Huzefa, You are from Sahyadris (in West India) right?

Just so you know – I use toilet paper when I have a toilet (most of the time).

I teach techniques to beginner campers, and I am amazed at how squeamish and downright intimidated they are by something SO easy (Joe The Backpacker, this means you) At first they want to deny it is even possible, and once they do it, it's never an issue again.

In a way – it's sad – we americans are culturally cut off from the simplest of human duties.

[Brian UL]

You can have my TP when you pry it from my cold dead (but clean) hands……

>Edited second joke for the sake of a little taste.

[Brian UL]

Seriously though, I tried to go TP-less on the JMT this year. But all I could find to use was pine cones. They just couldnt get the job done right. There were a few leafy greens but since Im not a westerner I couldnt identify them so that was that. So I got TP the first chance I had.

[Dave T]

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