State of the Market Report: Single Wall Tents (2008)

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

State of the Market Report: Single Wall Tents (2008)

[Ross Bleakney]

This is a very nice report. One of the things that jumps out at me, is that there are more options available in the arena than ever. Because of this, it is hard to grasp the information easily.

I agree with the earlier ideas about having a spreadsheet available for download. Ideally (and I have no idea how easy it is to use the software) it would be nice to simply plug the numbers into a web application, so that it would function like a spreadsheet (sort by one value or another, hide columns, etc.). I have done this sort of work before, but it was custom (I would imagine there is web software out there that would make the job much easier). Again, I'm not sure how easy it is; but if your web folks did the work, it would probably pay off as more and more tables are created.

As it is, the tables are very nice and fairly concise. But if the tables can be made bigger, I would suggest the following additional columns:

1) Inside Space (while it nice to have a big vestibule, I don't think it is as important as having bug free space).
2) Inside Space/Weight ratio
3) Entry Method: (top or side)
4) Number of People: (I know this is a bit subjective, but it would still be helpful to have as a summary).
5) Height by the head of a 6' person
6) Height by the head of a 5' person

I'll admit that I am biased towards the last 2. To me, the value of a tent (over a bivy/tarp combination) is that you have a roomy shelter from the bugs. You can lie down and stare up at the ceiling (or sit up on your shoulders and look at your feet). You can also lie down (on your back) and stretch your arms out (upward) which is why the five foot measurement is important. The combination of these two measurements would give you a fairly good numerical comparison of styles. For example (all things being equal) a tent like the Contrail would score well in both numbers (since it is very tall on the end); a tent like "The One" would be better in the 5' test than the 6' test (since the peak of the tent is close to, but not at the end); a tent like the AntiGravityGear would not fair as well. Of course, a very roomy tent (or one that slopes steeply) would do well in all measurements, regardless of style. I'm also a bit claustrophobic, so the room available while lying down is especially important to me.

Thanks again for the report (I love this kind of stuff).

[P. P.]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is MY KIND of bedtime reading material!!

[Jeff Cadorin]

Ryan,
Curious question about the guyline thats attached from the trekking poles down to the front of the tent. Did you have it installed during your t-storm?

Henry(or others in the know),
I dont even know if this guyline is included with the tyvek sublite or is it an add on to help with the sag of sil?

I am close to pulling the trigger on the sil-sublite. Kind of glad there is no mesh or awning option on the tyvek version. Would make it even harder to decide.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

> Henry(or others in the know),
I dont even know if this guyline is included with the tyvek sublite or is it an add on to help with the sag of sil?

The Sublite Sil has a pullout sewn into the apex, the Sublite does not (but it's a no-brainer to tie cording onto the clip that's already there). We're shipping the Sublite Sil with the extra cording. Both models benefit from the extra cording for wind but, yes, the Sil model probably more so because of sil stretch not present with tyvek.

[Jim Cowdery]

I have both a Squall and Lunar solo. I was very pleased with the squall and have used it in the southeast and on the AT in all four seasons. The biggest issue I have with the Squall is the front entry. I have to get up at night at least once to empty my bladder. As you can imagine every time I moved in the tent (except when the condensation was frozen) I got moisture on my down bag.

The Lunar Solo has helped and I have found that using the additional guy points helps raise the height of the tent reducing contact with the inside of the tent.

Henry, the Squall has found another use. I gave it to my daughter (Jukebox) who has, almost, completed a SOBO through-hike of the AT.

I have encountered some of the Florida rains, about 1" in 20 minutes and gale force winds, with both tents and they both fared well. In the high winds and heavy reains the Tarptent sagged more than the Six-moons design but that is probably because of the extra guy-points.

Thanks for updating the analysis and I do use an old double wall tent when I expect temperatures below 20 degrees F.

I'm looking forward to the next comparison of lightweight double wall tents.

[Will Rietveld]

Hi all, thanks for all of your great comments. Ryan has already provides some responses, and I will add some too.

Miguel, you taut me an important spelling lesson; I won't do it again, I promise!

Roger T and Michael, I sure wish the manufacturers would listen to your pleas for a tent designed for tall hikers. As Ross suggests, we could improve our SOTM articles by adding specifications useful for tall hikers.

Several people commented on the Tarptent Sublite. Only the silnylon Sublite qualifies for this comparison article, and I agree that it didn't get the credit it deserves, largely because the prototype I tested did not have any vestibule or rain flap. The production Sublite-Syl does have a rain flap over the entrance to provide protection and has a mesh door and bigger vents at the front and rear for views and ventilation. Another nice feature of the Sublite is it has lots of headroom right were you need it. I'm finishing a review of the Sublite tents now, which will provide a lot more detail.

Tim, your idea of an interactive version of the spreadsheets sounds good. BPL should put that on their wish list. Perhaps we could add a link to a downloadable Excel spreadsheet.

Ross, good suggestions for additional specs to add. We will keep them in mind for the next SOTM review.

Thanks to all who commented.
Best, Will

[Miguel Arboleda]

Miguel, you taut me an important spelling lesson; I won't do it again, I promise!

LOL, Will, that made me laugh. I really shouldn't be correcting people's spelling seeing as I always get "univeristy" and "silnylong" wrong!

[Chris Townsend]

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to back up Will and say thanks for the comments. I'm very pleased our feature has sparked such a useful discussion.

I should have picked up taut/taught. Oops!

Tents for tall hikers is a problem. Hilleberg make some of the longest tents but of course they are double-wall. Reducing weight does seem to mean reducing length and height with some makers. I've just tested a double-wall tent that was barely long enough for me – at 5'8"! One end was so low and narrow that my mat overhung the groundsheet and the roof touched my sleeping bag.

An interactive spreadsheet would be excellent. I have no idea how easy it would be to do!

Thanks again everyone.

Chris

[Rog Tallbloke]

> Reducing weight does seem to mean reducing length and height with some makers.

Spot on Chris. And carrying a damp sleeping bag with 4oz of water in it is crazy when 4oz is 2 yards of tent material and a couple more pegs…

[Joe Westing]

Chris and Will –
Thanks a lot for replying. All in all, this was an excellent article that has been extremely helpful in narrowing down my new shelter decision. The SOTMRs are the best part of a BPL subscription.

Just one more question:
Do you know when the Sublite Sil review will be published here on BPL? It would be really nice if it was available in the next two weeks.

[Shane Fleenor]

Just ponied up for full membership. Great article. A little confused about something though. I'm looking for a very spacious 2 (or 3) person for trips with girlfriend; yet I'm also a gearhead and I want whatever I buy to be worthy of, say, a week in tetons with a buddy or a stint on the AT. Came to the site looking for info on the Rainshadow 2. After reading the article, looks like the Lunar Duo is more recommended. But if you look at the individual reviews on the site, its not quite consistent. Says the rainshadow is "nearly perfect" and "marvelous design" and while wind a problem with one pole, sounds pretty decent in wind with two. On the other hand, while the review of lunar duo is good (and its recommended, whereas the rainshadow isnt), it repeats a couple times that its not a good choice for wind. This sounds like wind is a bigger problem for the lunar duo than for the rainshadow…but that's not what the Report says?

Also why do I keep seeing so many discussions comparing Lunar duo to the rainbow 2? Lunar duo compared to rainshadow too seems more appropriate; after all their oversized floor area and weight are nearly the same. Can anybody help clarify? Thanks!

[Ashley Brown]

Hi Shane,

The lunar duo is often compared to the double rainbow because they are the favourite tarptents for 2 people of people on this site. Not to say that no one uses the rainshadow, but I think there are probably a lot more double rainbow and lunar duo users.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there should be a new 2 person tarptent appearing in the next week or so. It will be both roomy and wind-resistant… you should definitely check it out (hasn't been released yet, but stay tuned!).

[Shane Fleenor]

Thanks Ashley! Is this thing being made by Henry Shires, or another company? How will I know when it comes out? Also, do you know if its as big as the Rainshadow and Lunar Duo? The appeal of these two shelters to me is how large they are; I was originally only looking at 3 man tents for present purposes (the old saying that you need one more 'man' than you have men), though Lunar Duo sounds big enough to fit the bill. Double rainbow sounds a little tighter; I'm sure its fine for a trek with a hard core buddy but not as comfy for an overnight with the girlfriend. Any clue where the new one falls on the spectrum?

[Shane Fleenor]

Oops, just reread and saw that you said it will be "roomy". So, I will limit my question to the "who makes it and how will I know when it comes out"? Although if you have any insight as to WHY the rainshadow is so much less popular than these other two tents, that would be helpful as well. Thanks again!

[Franco Darioli]

Ashley was talking about a Tarptent not just a tarp tent.
Rainshadow ? I would guess that most prefer a side entrance, in fact two , with a double tent. Nice also to have separate vestibules.
You will recognise the new model when several members will express comments like " this is the one I have been waiting for" or words to that effect.
Franco

[Ashley Brown]

Haha, yes Shane, you will hear plenty about it if you keep your eyes on the GSpot… there's sure to be a thread up about it when it gets released. Alternatively, check the "what's new" section of the Tarptent website.

I only know the "preliminary" specs which Henry passed on to me a while ago. I won't post them though, because I'm not sure whether they are 100% accurate and the real tent should be released very shortly (like in the next week or two… I think!).

It will almost certainly be more expensive than the double rainbow or lunar duo, but still good value. It will have a lot more internal space than the double rainbow, because the double rainbow has sloping side walls, whereas the ones on this tent are vertical. Not quite as big as the lunar duo, but not too far off it and I don't think most people will really notice the difference. Also it's heavier than either of those two tents, but still a very light tent.

This is the one I have been waiting for… er, I mean, it sounds really good. Dammit Franco stop putting words in my mouth!

[Ashley Brown]

Oh, and regarding the rainshadow… not sure. But I assume there are two main reasons:
– less useable space (can only sit up near the front of the tent)
– only one entry and vestibule
– easier to brush the walls when you are inside (possible to get wet from condensation)
– breezier because of the tunnel design

Like I said, I'm only guessing. But those are some of the reasons why I was interested in the other two tents instead. In particular I appreciate two entry points and two vestibules when I'm sharing a tent, and I think most other people do too.

[Shane Fleenor]

Thanks Ashley and Franco.

Two things you say there are very interesting.

– easier to brush the walls when you are inside (possible to get wet from condensation)

I did notice that the design of the Lunar Duo seems to almost mimick a double wall. Because the doors are at the side, and almost entirely mesh, it seems like you can touch the sides with less worry about getting wet, since you're just touching the mesh door (if you dont push too hard. Is that right? Would that be more of a problem with the Rainshadow, since the sides are the actual tarp?

That begs the question, though, what about the head and foot of the lunar duo? Is touching "more" of a concern there (whereas rainshadow has mesh there), or does the mesh around the perimeter of the lunar duo create enough of a space between floor and tarp to avoid the problem of your head or feet brushing the ends while you sleep? From the picture it sounds like that may be the case.

– breezier because of the tunnel design

Is this just a general fact of life/rule of thumb for tunnel tents? (forgive my ignorance, I've only used double walls). Isn't it going to be just as breezy side to side for the lunar duo if you have the vestibules staked out higher (i.e. further out/off the ground)? And is the alternative to breezy not being covered in condensation? Or is there a ventilation/breeziness spectrum, with a "sweet spot" in the middle that's adequately vented but not overly breezy, and you're saying that tunnel designs generally are further than desirable along the breeziness spectrum?

Putting words in your mouth again :)

Thanks so much; this is way more interesting than the work I'm supposed to be doing right now.

[Ashley Brown]

There's no problem with brushing the walls in the lunar duo. The side ones are mesh, so no condensation there. And the head and foot are raised quite a way off the ground so you won't be hitting it there either.

As for tunnel designs, like I said it is a guess. I haven't used any tunnel tarptents. The lunar duo can be breezy, but you can also stake it right down low to the ground all the way around if you want (in high winds). Tarptents are designed to have flow-through ventilation to prevent build-up of condensation, so it's a feature rather than a fault. But I do like to have a tent which allows me to "batten down the hatches" somewhat when the wind is really howling. With most tarptents you can do something or other to cut down on wind though.

I really think the main factors are the double vestibules/entries, the usable space, and the mesh sidewalls which make the lunar duo and double rainbow popular.

[Shane Fleenor]

This has been tremendously helpful, thanks so much. I'm back to leaning towards the lunar duo, I think, though Dennis Hiorns is giving me a strong sell in favor of the rainshadow on a separate G Spot thread, so I could swing back the other way. If anybody else observing wants to weigh in, I'm all ears.

As for the new Tarptent, more expensive AND heavier was not what I was hoping to hear (if I really wasnt thinking about my wallet, I'd get a big agnes copper spur 3 for girlfriend outings and then look into a smaller lighter single wall for my ultralight needs). That said, if its really as awesome as everybody is expecting, who knows…

[Dennis Phelan]

My wife and did 6 days on the Pacific Crest Trail in Oregon (where I live) this August using the Rainshadow 2 tent and loved it. The tent is a three person tent that is shaped just like the Squall 2 (hoop at the back with one or two poles in the front) except bigger. I liked the fact that we had plenty of room to bring our gear inside with us. The tent had plenty of ventalation and we had no condesation problem. I should note that the weather was dry and only slight breezes. This is our first single wall tent and at 41 oz it weighs less than half of my REI double wall half-dome tent.

Dennis Phelan

[Jay Wilkerson]

+1 on Rainshadow 2
Wife,son and me have really enjoyed this TT this summer…Easy set up and packs up very small considering the size of it's footprint…

[Phil Barton]

+1 when I don't need to go especially light as for bicycle touring the Rainshadow 2 is a great choice. It is a palace.

[Lynn Tramper]

What a superb review. Thanks Will and team. It should be easy to give link to a GoogleDocs spreadsheet that members can download or copy for their own use.

It's a shame the SMD Haven plus inner didn't make the review. I know it's 'technically' a double walled tent, but in all other respects behaves like a single wall shelter. It's a tent many are interested in…

[Author]

Posts