Oct 7, 2008 at 2:32 pm #1231440
Companion forum thread to:Oct 8, 2008 at 12:10 am #1453657
@butukiLocale: Kanto Plain, Japan
This is exactly the kind of project I've been looking for patterns for. My main interest is in making a below-the-knee length cagoule that I can pull over my knees when hunkering down to wait out a storm or just for keeping warm at the campsite. Thanks, Roger, for a great article!
Just curious, I've been looking forever for a source for plastic snap buttons like the ones you use in this project… where in the world can you find them???Oct 8, 2008 at 2:26 am #1453660
Plastic snaps – I get mine from a large box in the cupboard here … :-)
Actually, this is a very good question. I bought mine from a large distributor here in Australia – Shann Accessories. But I had to buy 100 sets = or maybe it was 200. They weren't expensive when bought like that, in bulk, and I do use a lot of them.
I had a prowl through the usual suspects like OWFINC and Seattle, but no joy there. I eventually found the source here:
They are called 'suntenac', and I think the ones I use are the 10 mm ones.
Now, where do you get them in Japan or USA? I have no idea I am afraid. You need to check the commercial distributors, whoever they may be.
The alternative is to buy *stainless* steel sew-on snaps. These are readily available in small sewing shops. I even found some in the general store in a small town in France, and bought some on a card. Far less convenient of course, but if all you need is a few it may be the best/only solution. Sewing these ones on means you don't need to make up a punch and die either.
So – can I expect to see a photo in due course?
cheersOct 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm #1453725
@redyetiLocale: South Eastern UK
Great article as ever Roger – yours are worth the subscription on their own.
Miguel – I've used this firm and they sell the plastic snaps:
I couldn't tell you where they actually ship from but they arrive in the UK within two weeks.
An order had half a buckle missing once so they sent a new, complete buckle after a quick email from me with an apologetic note. I'd recommend them. (And thanks to ed hyatt over on the Outdoors Magic UK forums for recommending them to me in the first place).Oct 8, 2008 at 2:09 pm #1453731
The web site does not give the diameter (afaik). What is it?
And thanks for the URL!
To anyone else:
If you buy the die set you can use it in a drill press with care. *Make sure it is centred* or the result is 'not functional'.
My recommendation would be to not use the snaps with metal prongs on light nylon. Too much chance of damage to the fabric. However, if you sew a small square of reinforcing at the back the pronged versions should be OK.
CheersOct 8, 2008 at 8:38 pm #1453791
Great article – being a non-sewer, I'm printing it off and giving it to my mom for her to sew one for me. :)
…outsourcing it, you know!Oct 9, 2008 at 8:12 am #1453818
@boredomheroLocale: Pacific Northwest
Why even do snaps? I have a cycling jacket with continuous velcro up the front. It can be opened and closed in an unlimited variety of ways. Wouldn't that do in this case as well? I could see this as a good place for some of that hermafroditic velcro.Oct 9, 2008 at 12:25 pm #1453845
@retropumpLocale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Actually it's 'hermaphroditic' ;)
Here's a thread stating my own personal opinion on the velcro topic:Oct 9, 2008 at 3:00 pm #1453877
Yes, you can argue for many different ways of doing up a poncho, or any other jacket, and I am not going to claim that any one is always better than the others.
I like the snaps because they allow me to control how and where the poncho is closed across my front. And I have done it up many different ways in the past, depending on the weather, the terrain, and what other clothing I was wearing at the time.
I find that velcro tends to either undo slowly, or creep shut slowly. Sometimes it is very convenient however. Zips are good for a complete seal, but sometimes they are just not versatile enough for me.
cheersOct 9, 2008 at 11:21 pm #1453929
Roger, your thoughts on using Cuben Fiber fabric? It comes in two strengths (I forget), pros? cons?
.44 oz or .33 oz
ps — what differences exist between your finished poncho and the Packa one that can be order "off the shelf"?
RoleighOct 10, 2008 at 3:04 am #1453937
Well, I would be rather interested to see one made of Cuben and to hear how it goes. Obviously it is going to be as waterproof (or better). If you tape up the seams I see no problems with rain.
One place where it might be different is in the drape. The silnylon is very flexible. But I don't know whether the Cuben would be better or worse.
Another possible difference might be in handling scrub. I have dragged this poncho over a few thorny vines in the rain, and the fabric does seem to slide nicely over them (fortunately!). I don't know what Cuben would do.
Btw, Cuben comes in MANY weights. Quest are just carrying two. They ARE lighter than silnylon.
> Differences between mine and The packa?
Yes, there are some significant differences.
* The Packa has huge pit zips; my poncho has none. (And I don't want them and don't need them either, as they just represent leaks to me.)
* The Packa has a big pocket (1 or 2); mine has none. Pockets in rainwear just fill up with rain imho.
* The Packa ties the fabric tightly around the pack rather like a pack cover; mine is secured under the pack but otherwise allows air movement all around.
Despite the differences, I think mine still has all the required advantages:
* Full rain protection for me and my pack.
* Arms can be free for scrambling, but can be pulled inside when it is cold.
* Air circulation underneath can be controlled and can be huge if wanted (minimising condensation, really).
* Poncho can be thrown partly or fully back off the wearer.
* Hem can be tightened up if wanted.
I wish CedarTree well with his design. We are both chasing the elusive perfection.
CheersOct 10, 2008 at 6:33 am #1453946
Roger, thanks! I forgot to ask if your article deals with fitting for a large pack, like the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone.
I don't consider myself a skilled enough sewer to this, so I wanted to take the article to a seamstress to do so I have not read and reread the article deeply, perhaps you've answered this question. If you have, please accept my apology.
Last, the Packa weighs 11 oz, but yours is 6.7 oz, do the design differences make that big of difference or what makes the weight difference? Thanks.Oct 10, 2008 at 3:48 pm #1454022
The pattern can handle a Macpac Torre fully extended. That's about 90 Litres! (Sue used the volume for loaves of French bread and cheese which she didn't want squashed.)
Weight difference? Dunno. Similar amount of fabric I think, so it must be all the extras on The Packa. I tend to be a bit ruthless with those.
CheersOct 11, 2008 at 4:18 pm #1454122
This looks great and is something I've be looking for, but am not skilled, or patient, enough to undertake. More the latter …. I've made prototype sleeping bags, tents and tarps, but just don't have it in me to measure, layout, and sew parallel lines.
Any DIY seamsters willing to build one of these for me?
I'm not real demanding. It doesn't have to be perfect.
If anyone else is similarly inclined, please chime in.
And perhaps we can extend a gratuity of some sort to Roger to keep things fair, provided he is willing to have someone "commercialize" his design.Oct 12, 2008 at 3:58 am #1454164
I wondered if, when a (2/4 way) front zip is used, an internal storm flap, with a similar rolled back edge feature as on your double flap's inner flap, combined with a 'passive' outer flap/zip cover, formed by hiding the zip behind the jacket material, would be more convenient: avoids velcro/poppers, but still (hopefully)'waterproof' enough.
I have tried to draw it in text:
where / is passive outer flap/zip cover
= is the zip
— is internal flap,
O is the rolled back edge
Also, there are rollup front only cycling
wp trousers called rainlegs (rainlegs.co.uk) you could perhaps add two rollup front leg covers to each fron side of the poncho and get dry knees / thighsOct 12, 2008 at 2:26 pm #1454210
You are right of course. There are several way of doing the front closure. Yours is also widely used.
I like an external storm flap most of the time as it stops the rain from reaching the zip – maybe :-)
> rollup front leg covers
Tried that once, many many years ago. Only medium successful. Had to have a full-length zip on each leg. I think it might work better with a parka than a poncho, as the poncho is a bit too flappy at the bottom edge.
CheersOct 17, 2008 at 8:11 am #1454849
If a coil zip is used, someone on this forum suggested it can be made water repellant by running silnet into the backing, resulting in a home made waterresistant zip.
Also, The zip should be covered pretty well by the front passive flaps.
Also, the rainlegs style 'trousers' only over the front of the leg so I am puzzled by the zip reference.Oct 17, 2008 at 9:05 am #1454856
now that is an interesting idea. It looks like with a poncho rain legs could very work well at keeping your upper legs dry. May be it could work with a parka too as your pack would act as rain breaker -in theory atleast.Oct 17, 2008 at 9:42 am #1454859
>If a coil zip is used, someone on this forum suggested it can be made water repellant by running silnet into the backing, resulting in a home made waterresistant zip.
Thanks for the heads up. Here is the link to the thread.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/7088/index.html?skip_to_post=50580#50580Dec 12, 2008 at 8:27 pm #1464018
Roger, since you posted this article do you know of any online retailers making your design for those who can't sew – if so, do you have any links? Thanks.Jan 1, 2009 at 10:31 am #1467442
Marianne van GinhovenMember
@mvanginhovenLocale: The Netherlands
I would like to make such a poncho, but I don't know what whipper snipper cord is, could you please explain. I can't find it in my dictionary, meaning that English is not my natiave language. Thanks. MarianneJan 1, 2009 at 1:08 pm #1467462
In the UK the Whipper Snipper is known as a Strimmer, so the cord should be the same.
Hope this helps.Jan 1, 2009 at 2:01 pm #1467469
In a related new "G spot" thread here at BPL, (see http://preview.tinyurl.com/9dv2cd ), I am interested in seeing how users of Mountain Laurel Design's Cuben Fiber Poncho/Tarp feel about it — it is very close to Roger's design and the followers of this thread might want to contribute their insights over at this new thread more focused on MLD's Cuben Fiber approach to protecting one's body/pack while hiking (plus it has the added feature of being either a tarp or providing some protection from the rain at camp at night while cooking (if tarp ceiling is made much higher) if one has ultralight tents (as we all do, all under 1.5 pounds apiece)). See http://tinyurl.com/7ovmyr for the features of the MLD poncho/tarp.Jan 10, 2009 at 5:16 pm #1469250
I am in discussion with a gear sewing company (a one man operation–I secured Roger's permission to have a 3rd party sew my poncho using his pattern–thanks, Roger!) – I have to decide if I go with Cuben Fiber or Silynylon. I'm tempted to go with Cuben Fiber and have two questions for all.
1. What are the cons I should consider?
2. If I need two pieces of Cuben Fiber "put together" to be a large enough piece, should I (a) only use the Cuben Fiber No-Sew Tape without Sewing (features say only "no-sew" in most cases, not all), (b) use the Cuben Fiber with No-Sew Tape and sew anyway–in which case, how does one seal seams of Cuben Fiber, using the mix of silicone caulk II and mineral spirits ala Tarptent Recipe for sealing silnylon, or (c) just sew the pieces together and seam seal them. Any advice on sewing pieces together for the sewing company, sealing?
3. I intend if I go with Cuben Fiber to use the heavier dutier weight at http://www.questoutfitters.com/fabric%20lightweight-cart.htm which is the .48 oz v. the .33 oz weight.
ps – I note on this web site, they also talk about putting "no-sew" mylar tape on top of the "no-sew cuben tape". So many options, how best to procede? All these confusing choices, and I wonder if it might not be better to go with Silnylon — the sewing company is very familiar and experienced with Silnylon.Jan 26, 2009 at 9:23 am #1472979
@beepLocale: Land of 11, 842 lakes
I ran across this similar item (http://www.questoutfitters.com/patterns-jackets-cart.htm#Jacket Patterns
Scroll down to the "Parcho" portion. This is somewhat similar and is available in complete kits (pattern + materials).
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