Complex carb dense snacks

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Jason, I know about moosegoo recipe. Honey is simple carbs and I think moosegoo would be high on GI.

Thanks anyways.

edit: after some further research I have learned that GI of honey can vary significantly from 35 to 75+. honey with greater fructose% has lower GI. Those complex carbs are most likely from corn flour. I will give it a try but I think it will have a high GI.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Walter Willet, nutrition chair of the Harvard School of Public Health, published a study, which found that women who ate more whole grains had a lower risk of diabetes. The women who ate the most sugar and refined carbohydrates such as white bread, pasta and potatoes had the highest risk of diabetes, as much as 2.5 times more. He also emphasized that whole grains have a different effect in the body as compared to refined carbohydrates. In general, the less refined the food, such as whole grains and legumes, the less rapidly they are digested, and thus they enter the body's system much slower. This decreases the body's production of insulin, puts less stress on the body and thereby lowers the glycemic load. All of this lowers one's risk of developing diabetes.
http://www.calolive.org/foodservice/findings/findings_2004q1.html#8

High GI carbohydrate foods (eg. refined white flour foods) tend to have a chemical structure which permits digestive enzymes easy access, which means these carbs are rapidly converted to glucose and, on entry into the bloodstream, cause a rapid rise in blood sugar ("sugar spike"). In turn, this rapid glycemic reaction triggers an equally large secretion of the pancreatic hormone insulin, whose function is to get the glucose out of the blood and into the cells/muscles where it is utilized to provide energy for the body. Unfortunately, this sort of increased demand on the pancreas and the presence of large amounts of insulin in the blood is neither healthy (it may lead to hyperinsulimia and impaired glucose tolerance) nor good for weight management (it creates renewed hunger within a couple of hours). Until the invention of the glycemic index and associated glycemic load, sugar was thought to be the main cause of "sugar spikes". Now however, it is clear that refined white flour foods are the main culprit.
http://www.carbs-information.com/gi-values-carbohydrates.htm

Starch is a Complex Carbohydrate
Because the molecular structure of complex carbohydrates is more complicated, than more simple carbohydrate sugars, like sucrose and glucose, the body cannot metabolize complex carbs into energy as quickly as simple carbs. Result? Complex carbs are not digested and turned into energy as fast as sugars (except for fructose) and therefore keep us full for longer.

Starch is an Intermediate or High Glycemic Index Food
However, the classification of carbs into "simple" or "complex carbs" has been superceded by the Glycemic Index, which rates carbs according to their effect on blood-glucose levels. Many starchy foods (eg. potatoes) are now classified as intermediate or high-glycemic-index foods and should (for best effects on blood-sugar and insulin sensitivity) be eaten in combination with lower glycemic index foods.
http://www.carbs-information.com/starch.htm

From the above info it seems that even though chickpea flour and white wheat flour have a high carb [starch] content they are high on GI. OTOH whole grain are low on GI because they have more fibre. [correct me if I am wrong] But fibre doesnt give energy.

The question I have is how much should I be concerned about high GI food? If I snack at regular intervals -say 1hour can I maintain my glucose levels by eating starchy food? How do I determine optimum interval?

[Rog Tallbloke]

> sugar was thought to be the main cause of "sugar spikes". Now however, it is clear that refined white flour foods are the main culprit.

So I'll be ok with chocolate cream sponge cake because it's a nice dark colour… right? :o)

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

Love you line of thinking Roger ;-)

[Lynn Tramper]

Any refined grain will have a higher GI than the equivalent whole grain, and the more cooked a whole grain is the higher it's GI too. It is difficult to micromanage the GI of your foods unless you are only eating a single food in isolation at any one meal. Adding fats to a high GI food will lower the GI of the whole meal. Cooking stuff like pasta and rice to just 'al dente' will give you a lower GI than the same carbs cooked to mush. Fiber slows the GI of most foods

If you're really worried about GI then you are best to stick to legumes like Laurie suggested. Dried beans/chickpeas/lentils/soy beans/peas in their whole form are best as they have lots of complex low GI carbs PLUS good quality protien PLUS ample fiber. Another nice way to eat legumes is to carry raw seeds and sprout them along the way. Many sprouts come up in just a couple of days in warm weather and supply a lot of really good vitamins and nutrients. And don't forget the fat to also slow down digestion (and thus GI). The tahini+honey halva mentioned is good because the fat from the tahini slows down the impact of the honey on your blood sugar, and it keeps really well. Balanced meals and snacks are your best bet (carbs, protein and fat all in the same meal).

Other yummy low GI carbs can be found from grains such as pumperknickel bread or sprouted whole grain breads.

[Lynn Tramper]

I just noticed you were talking about weekend hikes, so sprouts will be too slow.

You cannot really eat lots of carbs AND burn bodyfat at the same time. How much fat you burn on a weekend trip will come down to how many more calories you expend than you consume, but carbs in particular will kill body fat burning totally. Your body won't burn much fat until your blood sugar levels get low enough to signal a lack of ready energy, and this doesn't happen until you burn (or store as fat) all the carbs you've just eaten plus and glycogen stored in your liver. Fat burning is highest in a fasted state. Increasing your protein intake will help spare muscle to make sure you DO burn fat instead of your valuable muscle. But it ultimately comes down to calories in vs calories out.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Allison, thanks for your insight.

I am not planning to eat a lot of carbs. What I plan to do is to carry least amount of food, mostly carbs and some protein, that will help my body burn fat without hitting the wall.

>Your body won't burn much fat until your blood sugar levels get low enough to signal a lack of ready energy, and this doesn't happen until you burn (or store as fat) all the carbs you've just eaten plus and glycogen stored in your liver. Fat burning is highest in a fasted state. Increasing your protein intake will help spare muscle to make sure you DO burn fat instead of your valuable muscle.

What you are are saying is that to get the maximum fat burn I need to finish using up my carbs and glycogen reserves? If I follow your reasoning then to get max fat burn I shouldnt carry any food.

>Your body burns fat and carbohydrates to produce energy. Carbohydrates are stored in the form of glycogen in your liver and muscles and glucose in your bloodstream. Carbohydrates can be consumed on their own to produce energy via anaerobic energy production. They are also used via aerobic energy production to to burn fat. It's sort of like the relationship between charcoal and lighter fluid. Charcoal (fat in the analogy) burns slowly and requires a higher energy fuel like lighter fluid (carbohydrates in the analogy) to initiate combustion. After the fire is going only a small amount of starter-fuel is required to maintain combustion. I know that personally it takes me about 15-20 minutes of steady-state exercise to shift from burning mostly carbohydrates to burning mostly fat.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/5516/index.html?skip_to_post=39210#39210

But this says that I need steady small amount of carbs to keep the fat burn going – like I thought.

can you clarify?

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

I think you are right. I had be better off watching glycemic load then GI. Adding fats to lower GI is a good idea. Nuts and cheese seem to have nice balance between fat and protein.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Tastes better than maltodextrine too.

[Laurie Ann March]

Roger you took the words right out of my mouth… then again I also am keen on having food that tastes good when I am on a backpacking trip.

[Lynn Tramper]

>>Your body burns fat and carbohydrates (AND PROTEIN) to produce energy. Carbohydrates are stored in the form of glycogen in your liver and muscles and glucose in your bloodstream. Carbohydrates can be consumed on their own to produce energy via anaerobic energy production. They are also used via aerobic energy production to to burn fat. It's sort of like the relationship between charcoal and lighter fluid. Charcoal (fat in the analogy) burns slowly and requires a higher energy fuel like lighter fluid (carbohydrates in the analogy) to initiate combustion. After the fire is going only a small amount of starter-fuel is required to maintain combustion. I know that personally it takes me about 15-20 minutes of steady-state exercise to shift from burning mostly carbohydrates to burning mostly fat.

I don't know where that reference comes from, but in a fasted state (assuming your liver and muscle glycogen are partially depleted after and overnight fast)) it would take anywhere from 15-40 minutes of steady state aerobic exercise to make the shift from burning mainly carbs to mainly fat. If you've just eaten a lot of carbs, these will also have to be burned off first before you really hit you fat stores. If your liver is also full of glycogen, it will take even longer. Fat burning is not an on-off thing. When you first start exercising after a carb-dense meal you may be burning 30% fat/70% glucose. By the time you've burned off most of your carbs you may be closer to burning 80% fat/20% glucose. You do NOT need any carbs to burn fat efficiently…quite the opposite. But if you are not used to exercising in this state (essentially burning ketones for energy instead of glucose) then it can take time to adjust. This is why a lot of elite endurance athletes now practice "fat loading' instead of "carb loading". Once your body is used to it, burning fat gives you access to greater and more even burning energy stores. This is all in theory. in practice, how much fat you burn will be dictated MAINLY by how many fewer calories you eat than you burn. If you eat carbs all day long, but also burn them off as you eat them, and go do bed with a calorie deficit for the day, you will still burn fat. You just need to be careful that you get plenty of protein, plus 'enough' calories to keep your body from digging into your muscle stores for energy. As a general guideline, a safe amount to cut calories without risking muscle loss is to eat 80% of your maintenance calories (the amount of calories that would keep you at a steady weight). That's not always easy to work out when your hiking though!

>>What you are are saying is that to get the maximum fat burn I need to finish using up my carbs and glycogen reserves? If I follow your reasoning then to get max fat burn I shouldnt carry any food.

Yes, that would certainly get you maximum fat burning, but you would also pretty quickly start burning muscle too. Like all things in life it's a balance. Try and stick to the 80% rule of thumb and you should be fine.

[Linsey Budden]

Dear Huzefa, Let me direct you to the recipe section at Bob's Red Mill website; I suggest you search the "whole grain" category. Also the products are wonderful. Francis Tapon was sponsored by Bob's when he yo-yoed the CDT stoveless.

http://www.bobsredmill.com/recipes.php

Some of the complex carb foods I'm packing up for my hike are: multigrain pretzels, dehydrated brown rice (for curry), dehydrated cooked barley (for breakfast cereal and maybe some soup), whole grain tortillas, whole grain crackers (for hummus), oatcakes (as suggested on this thread), high energy cereal bars (A Fork in the Trail cookbook), granola and/or granola bars and cornmeal cookies.

http://www.bobsredmill.com/recipes.php

[Laurie Ann March]

Hi Linsey,

Which flavor of the energy bars did you make? Or did you really change it up? That's what is fun with that recipe.

[Linsey Budden]

Hi Laurie, You rightly guessed that I have changed them up, but I have made the Hazelnut Currant nearly to specifications (using carob chips instead of chocolate). What makes these bars infinitely versatile is the variety of healthier box cereals not to mention homemade cereals/granolas. Fun to mix and match cereals like a puffed millet with a heavy crushed spelt flake. I make the Cranberry Macadamia alot but with walnuts or hazelnuts and carob or chocolate instead of white chocolate. Basically, I substitute what I have on hand for what I don't.

Anyway great recipe; easy, delicious, and very professional looking, and I love that I can make ahead and freeze until needed.

[Laurie Ann March]

I think that is what I like most about that recipe. While writing the book I had to measure to keep the recipe consistent.

That said, when I am making them for our own trips they become "Kitchen Bars". Basically whatever I have in the kitchen goes as long as I have some sort of fruit in them and a cereal with a sturdy flake.

I love hearing how others changed them up. A lady from BC used almond butter instead of peanut butter. Yum.

[Michael Wands]

I have been eating Bear Valley Fruit 'N Nut Pemmican Bars for years. Love 'em. Good protein, fat & amino acids. I cut them up into bite-sized pieces and store them in a 32 oz. wide-mouthed Nalgene bottle. That way I don't worry about rain or ants or mice or raccoons or skunks or squirrels, etc. This is for weekends in Texas without the fear of bears.

I have only found them at REI and Whole Foods. Take 3 per day. Also bring peanut butter to dip them in. In winter I dip them in Hot Tea for a warm snack.

[Linsey Budden]

This is the quintessential bar! Francis Tapon stuffed them in his Gossamer Gear packstraps for padding, then ate them.

[Brett Tucker]

>>I have only found them at REI and Whole Foods.<<

You can order them (all 4 flavors) at Bear Valley's website:

http://www.mealpack.com/

Hard to beat bulk pricing here, to say nothing of the fact that these are roughly twice the calorie count of a typical energy bar.

I'm also a fan of corn-derived carbohydrate, which is quite a rarity among the energy bar genre.

[Chris Townsend]

Bear Valley bars are wonderful! Tasty, healthy and filling. I ate two or more every day during my CDT hike. They're not available in the UK though and can't be ordered.

[Brett Tucker]

Thanks, Chris. In fact, it's thanks to your mention of the bars in your book "Crossing Arizona" that I discovered them.

[Laurie Ann March]

Chris – you could always get a friend on this side of the ocean to pick some up and send them to you.

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