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stove to melt snow


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  • #1344549
    Tony Burnett
    Spectator

    @tlbj6142

    Locale: OH--IO

    Wouldn’t I need a rather large pie plate (12-14″) to put both the canister and stove base inside its diameter? Do you still put a windscreen around the stove pot combo? If so, how do you keep it from “tipping” into the water as part of the windscreen would be over the water and a portion would be over the ground?

    #1344550
    kevin davidson
    Member

    @kdesign

    Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson

    Tony, I use a similar windscreen set up to the one in the following article. Also, the whole article will answer some of your canisters in cold weather questions.


    http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00041.html

    #1344551
    Tony Burnett
    Spectator

    @tlbj6142

    Locale: OH--IO

    We’ve seem to be switching between stove types within our responses. The above link seems to be referring to a “stove on top” style of canister stove. Whereas, I was talking about a “detached stove”. The former doesn’t seem all that ideal for melting snow as they tend to be a bit unstable, only made worst because you have to constantly touch the pot when adding snow and removing water. The later seems to be a better snow melting setup from a stability point of view; however, it doesn’t benefit from the being placed closed to heat source.

    Dang it, now I’m all confused. What sort of snow melting cansiter stove setup is ideal when temps are below 20F? 15F? 10F? Or should canisters not even be considered at those temps regarless of which wacky setup (cooper wire thing, pot-o-warm water, etc.) you choose? RJ’s article only mentions temps down to 23F. Which, I think, is a rather “warm” winter trip, espeically for morning temps.

    Maybe canister stoves are out of the question of sub-20F temps? If so, please let me know and I’ll stop considering one for snow melting.

    #1344553
    kevin davidson
    Member

    @kdesign

    Locale: Mythical State of Jefferson

    I apologize,Tony, for bringing in the non-detached form of canister stoves into the discussion ( which incidentally can work quite well for winter camping, with proper care–it’s what I typically use).

    A foam pad insulation pad should be used under both the detached canister and the stove to prevent the base from melting and to help keep the canister
    warm enough to work.

    If the temp. gets down to a certain point ( Ryan’s 23 degrees F is a good marker), it is increasingly difficult to use a canister stove in the open and would suggest moving operations inside a tent or well ventilated snowcave to have a warmer operating environment, where hand or body warming of the canister is effective.

    #1344559
    Richard Matthews
    Member

    @food

    Locale: Colorado Rockies

    Tony,

    I have used both stove on top canister and white gas stoves in snow. I have used a detached canister stove, but never in the snow.

    I use my sit pad and a tin foil pie plate for the stove platform. For the detached maybe you will need 2 pie tins. Get the bigger pie tins that the bottom is about 1″ bigger than the diameter of your pot. The windscreen nests inside.

    The canister needs to be kept in your sleeping bag or an iside coat pocket before the initial burn. You need some starter liquid and as soon as you have about a cup boiled pour about half into the pie tin with the canister. Refresh the hot water as needed.

    One of the benefits of camping in the snow is digging a snow kitchen. You can construct a good wind screen with snow.

    I have heard that people that like to live dangerously will cook in the vestibule with canister stoves. Breakfast in bed makes the accomodations for a canister stove worthwhile.

    Some people will gather clean snow in a plastic bag in an open area because it contains less duff. The snow is transferred into the pot with a cup.

    #1344562
    Tony Burnett
    Spectator

    @tlbj6142

    Locale: OH--IO

    Thanks for the more detailed description.

    To All;
    I wonder at what point (temperature) the upside down cansier trick starts, and stops, being useful? Vick?

    Currently I own MSR PR, I have a hard enough time keeping my pot from sliding off during the 3-season hiking (I only use it when I hike with my kids) when its sits on a picnic table, I can’t imagine how unstable it would be during the winter. So, I figure I’ll need to buy a new stove for snow melting and cold weather trips.

    Maybe a “more stable” top-mount is the answer (Colemen F1??)? Detacthed cansiter (MSR WindPro??)? Or go with white gas (Simmer/Whisper)? I don’t know. I was kind of hoping you folks would make it easier to make a decission, but that doesn’t seem to be happening.<g>

    #1344563
    Ryan Faulkner
    Spectator

    @ryanf

    I have a pocket rocket a gigapower a wind pro and a jet boil.

    the giga power is much more stable than the pocket rocket because it has 4 stands instead of three and is made of titanium but the windpro takes the cake for stability because it is on the ground.

    is a jetboil useful for melting snow?

    #1344564
    Tony Burnett
    Spectator

    @tlbj6142

    Locale: OH--IO

    I thought someone on the bpl yahoo group used a jetboil for their winter trips. I believe he had some sort of hanging rig which allowed him to use it in the tent without fear of tipping over.

    Don’t recall if it was used for snow melting or not.

    I found the message, it was Dr. J. Posted on Nov 4th, 2004.

    #1344565
    Richard Matthews
    Member

    @food

    Locale: Colorado Rockies

    You can’t have too many stoves <g>.

    Maybe buy at a place with a liberal return policy (REI). Try it in the snow and take it back if it does not work the way you want. It may take a lot of test trips.

    There must be a downside, but I don’t see it.

    #1344567
    Ryan Faulkner
    Spectator

    @ryanf

    most REIs rent out gear but not all so look at REI.com

    Rentals

    #1344786
    Norma Miller
    Member

    @normalight

    We found after some experimentation that the # of pumps given to the cylinder prior to lighting is proportional to the flare up AND more importantly to how well it behaves for a simmer. Here’s what we noted: More than 5 pumps and you get too much pressure and subsequently will be almost impossible to simmer. Sometimes I give it 2 or 3 pumps and it simmers perfectly. Or, just 1 or none after a short time off. Of course other factors may change things including how long between light-ups. The initial light up after a day or two may mean more than 5. I don’t know if weather, i.e. very cold or very hot temps, plays any part in changing how much effort it takes to “properly” pressurize the fuel for controlled burn & simmer. Hint: The instructions do state not to over-pump the canister though they don’t tell you how many times for how ever long it’s not been fired. The T&E (trial/error) method seems to be the only way to work MSR stoves.

    #1345772
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    For Neil

    Coleman are still selling the Powermax cartridges in Europe and the UK. I asked. (I also lost your email address!)

    Cheers
    Roger Caffin

    #1345775
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Flaring with a petrol stove (Whisperlite, XGK, etc) is probably caused by water dripping on the preheat tube. The water may be from boiling over or from condensation on the outisde of the pot. Dangerous stuff in a tent.

    #1345778
    Drowned Lemming
    BPL Member

    @lemming

    Coleman may say they are still suppying them, but they are long gone from the shops! The UK ‘Outdoorsmagic’ site has a thread linking to a supplier who states that he is ‘one of the very few suppliers’ and he only sells by the case (12 x 300g).
    Therefore not a good choice of cartridge if you want to be able to resupply en route – for UK/Europe, the Epigas standard has to be the way to go (apart from France, obviously!).

    #1530124
    Chris Harbert
    Member

    @shavuotis

    When It's cold, I use an Optimus Nova. It is compact, hot, and it's built like a tank. I've used it for 4yrs. with no problems whatsoever. My MSR Windpro does a good job too. Just keep the cannister in your sleeping bag or coat before you use it and it works fine. I have found that a good windbreak around the stove set up helps to keep some warm air around so the cannister won't cool off so fast.

    #1530134
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    My MSR Dragonfly is THE lowest simmering liquid fuel backpacking stove on the planet. Period.

    And it's very hot on full blast. I'd take it over the Simmerlite any day.

    Having two good lightweight canister stoves (Vargo Jet-Ti and Brunton Flex) I'd never, ever take them winter camping, even with my Brunton remote canister adapter and the canister upside down or using my MSR Wind Pro the same way just won't cut it.

    Remember, in cold weather backpacking SAFETY is paramount. Having an utterly reliable stove is a big part of that safety.

    Eric

    #1530152
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    > in cold weather backpacking SAFETY is paramount. Having an utterly reliable stove
    > is a big part of that safety
    It is a part, yes. But only a part. The safety of the fuel itself is perhaps as important, or even more so.

    I am reminded of a time when another member of the party had a small problem with the white gas he was handling. It spilt. My pack and my sleeping bag were a bit burnt as a result. Fortunately, we got it under control before the tent went up.

    There have been other cases like this. I don't use white gas any more – for safety reasons.

    Cheers

    #1530159
    Misfit Mystic
    Member

    @cooldrip

    Locale: "Grand Canyon of the East"

    I agree with Roger; I find white gas to be dangerous at times in extreme weather. Numerous times in the past, having been blasted all day climbing some peak, trying to prime and light a white gas stove was nearly impossible. When you're shivering and maybe a bit hypoxic is no time to attempt to deal with highly volatile fuels. I can recall quite a few times dodging fireballs or kicking the thing out of the vestibule. Now, I set up my Coleman Extreme or Wind Pro, fire it up carefully, and start cooking. No flares, no white gas leaking everywhere, no burning gloves. I can do it exhausted, hypothermic, or half-asleep, which is big for me. There have been a few times those stoves saved my behind!

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