Jul 29, 2008 at 6:13 pm #1230408
Companion forum thread to:Jul 29, 2008 at 6:24 pm #1445058
Will, can you let us know the size of the parka you are wearing in the photos? It would also be very handy to know your height and weight so we can get an idea of how the sizing runs. Thanks!Jul 29, 2008 at 6:43 pm #1445062
@mad777Locale: South Florida
Since this in in approximately the same weight class as the synthetic Patagonia MicroPuff hooded jacket, I was wondering if anyone could subjectively compare the warmth of the two garments.Jul 29, 2008 at 7:49 pm #1445083
The Patagonia Micropuff hooded jacket provides ~71% of the Mont bell Alpine Light Down Parka's clo value.
An average 30 year old male; sitting around camp chatting for up to 6 hours; wearing a .6 clo base layer under the parkas; would be comfortable to a low of ~35F in the Patagonia Micropuff and ~17F in the Mont bell Alpine Light Down Parka.
Although you didn't ask for a comparison with the Patagonia Down Sweater Pullover Hoody, it better highlights the Mont bell Alpine Light Down Parka value proposition. The Mont bell weight/$ is 14.2 oz/$165. The Patagonia weight/$ is 14.5 oz/$250. The Patagonia Down Sweater Pullover Hoody only provides 75% of the Mont bell Alpine Light Down Parka's clo value. The Patagonia Down Sweater Pullover Hoody temp rating for the previously defined test scenario is ~29F.Jul 30, 2008 at 3:56 am #1445121
@jcar3305Locale: East of Cascades
What does "calendared" mena as used in the following:
"It's calendared on one side to give it more strength (at a cost of some breathability)"
I have never heard that term used previously to describe garment construction.Jul 30, 2008 at 5:35 am #1445126
Calendaring is when one or both sides of a fabric is heated and put under pressure to slightly melt and fuse the fibers. It generally improves water resistance and can increase fabric strength but at the cost of breathability. The more it is calendered the less breathable.Jul 30, 2008 at 9:53 am #1445142
@mad777Locale: South Florida
Thanks very much for that well informed comparison!
I have the micropuff and I am generally happy with it. Its advantage, to me, over down is its ability to handle some wetness while doing camp chores, as it is synthetic. Also, in the event of catastrophic wetout of my down sleeping bag, it is my back-up. IMO the chance of this is small since I use POE's kayak style dry bags.
However, the micropuff's disadvantage is its bulk when packed compared to a down jacket. Now that I know the Montbell is somewhat warmer with excellent DWR …. temptation strikes!Jul 30, 2008 at 1:17 pm #1445171
How would you compare this to the COCOON PRO 60 Parka?
Thanks.Jul 30, 2008 at 3:29 pm #1445194
It appears to me that the Cocoon Pro 60 Parka is designed for safety in much wetter environments than the MB Alpine Light Down Parka. I view it as the equivalent of both a parka and a separate shell at about the same weight as just the MB Alpine Light Down Parka.
The Cocoon Pro 60 is also much lighter with better water resistance than the Patagonia Micropuff Hoody. Both synthetic parkas provide about the same warmth. My algorithms yield a comparative extended sitting temperature rating of ~37F for the Cocoon Pro 60.Jul 31, 2008 at 3:30 am #1445231
@adrianbLocale: Auckland, New Zealand
I have the non-pro cocoon: although it's very light for a synthetic, the MB Alpine Light is much loftier + warmer. Can't comment on the pro shell, but the 30D shell of the MB is a bit sturdier than the quantum shell on the Cocoon.Jul 31, 2008 at 10:02 am #1445252
Thank you. How would the Cocoon PRO 60 Parka and the Montbell Alpine compare with the Cocoon UL 60 Hoody and Pullover, then?Jul 31, 2008 at 12:01 pm #1445268
The Cocoon UL 60 Hoody will provide the same temperature rating as the Cocoon PRO 60. The difference is a significant reduction in the ability to keep external moisture out of the insulation with the Cocoon UL 60 Hoody.
The Cocoon pullover provides 7% less body surface area coverage than the Parka. Non hypothermic environments would result in this garment providing a 10% commensurate reduction in warmth. In hypothermic environments this garment would provide 55% less warmth than a hoody.
The body’s primary defense against the cold and hypothermia is vasoconstriction of the peripheral circulation from the normal ~ 4 quarts/min. to .02 quarts/min (99% reduction). This shunts blood to the core and reduces circulation to the skin. The blood flow to the brain does not change as the demand for oxygen is constant. If you continue to loose heat and begin to shiver, you are doing a special case of exercising. The shivering muscles increase metabolic demand and cardiac demand so you increase your cardiac output and the % of blood heat loss through your head to about 55%.
– When not shivering, the heat loss from the head’s 7% body surface area is ~10% of the body’s total heat output
– Shivering increases heat output ~ 5x
– Shivering increases head and neck heat loss (10 X 5 = 50) to ~55% of your body’s totalAug 3, 2008 at 7:49 am #1445549
It drives me crazy when I read a great review of a product like this…and then I search out where to purchase it, and it's virtually out of stock everywhere (except for men's small sizes). Anyone know when this product might be back on the market?Aug 3, 2008 at 8:59 am #1445552Aug 3, 2008 at 3:51 pm #1445577
no, all they have is the small size, as well. All other sizes are shown as sold out.Aug 3, 2008 at 6:49 pm #1445591
.Aug 3, 2008 at 10:51 pm #1445609
tried them too…they show availability on their website, but after I placed an online order they said they are out of stock at least until the end of September.Aug 3, 2008 at 10:59 pm #1445610
@adrianbLocale: Auckland, New Zealand
Prolite has a medium of the unhooded version.Aug 4, 2008 at 6:25 am #1445628
@thunderheadLocale: Great Smoky Mountains
What size are you looking for? I've got a large in black without the hood. I was looking at getting the parka in the fall. If you need it now, I may be tempted to part with mine if the price is right.Aug 5, 2008 at 6:23 am #1445756
looking for medium in hooded version, but thanks.Oct 8, 2008 at 7:48 pm #1453785
Just wondering how the sizes run, for fit. I have an older model Thermawrap jacket and had to go with an XL. I normally wear a large. Looking at Montbell's websites current sizing chart, it seems that a large would now fit me? Did Montbell make changes, and revamp their garment sizing?Jan 17, 2009 at 8:19 pm #1470939
@tjaardLocale: Minnesota, USA
And what are the sleeves like? Long or short? And how much loft does it have?Jan 17, 2009 at 9:15 pm #1470952
"The body’s primary defense against the cold and hypothermia is vasoconstriction of the peripheral circulation from the normal ~ 4 quarts/min. to .02 quarts/min (99% reduction). This shunts blood to the core and reduces circulation to the skin."
The above numbers are confusing. Where are they taken from? Human physiology texts will say that the entire heart output in an average male is 5.6 liters per minute. Decreasing that by 99% means you are dead.Jan 17, 2009 at 9:35 pm #1470955
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> entire heart output in an average male is 5.6 liters per minute. Decreasing that by 99% means you are dead.
I don't think that was what the quote meant at all. The quote said the blood flow normally going to the surface skin was redirected to the core. This does not imply any reduction in total blood flow.
CheersMay 11, 2009 at 8:06 am #1500505
I am 5-11", 170lb, 40in chest, 32in waist, 15-1/2" neck, and long arms. I have the jacket in a size Large and it fits perfectly (the sleeves/arms are long enough that I can bring my hands inside). This jacket is surprisingly warm for the weight.
I use it often when ice climbing as a belay jacket and it fits well over a Patagonia Mixmaster jacket (and underlayers). I also wear it walking to work (30 mins, briskly) and its kept me warm in -30C weather (yes, Celcius).
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