Ryan Jordan’s SUL Winter Challenge

[kevin davidson]

I would keep the bivy because it has a more unified integrity than the seperate sheets you are proposing. Quantum is amazingly water resistant.

Also, we need a few BMW products for Ryan to carry. Promotional, you know? Ryan’s got a family to feed.

Another thing, these will be ideal conditions for VBL clothing which could be another means of cutting weight. In fact, I think an Arc X could be used after all if VBL is worn at night or a VBL bag liner is used.

[John S.]

Vapor barrier clothing made from cuben fabric would be the ticket. An entire suit or bag may weigh around 3-4 oz. I’m guessing

[EndoftheTrail]

Just wondering out loud… is this Carol’s sinister plot to rid herself of RJ?

[Michael Martin]

John Shannon writes:

>> Vapor barrier clothing made from cuben fabric would be the ticket. An entire suit or bag may weigh around 3-4 oz. I’m guessing.

Now we’re talking! Great idea, John. A suit would allow easy use of his warm clothing in the sleep system, but if we went the bag liner route, he could still drape the WM flight jacket over the top of the VBL.

Maybe we could coax Bill Fornshell to volunteer to make Ryan a Cuben VBL suit… <g>

If not, an even lighter alternative would be one of those mylar space bags for a VBL at 2.6oz.

[kevin davidson]

John –please take off the googles and substitute the glasses—it will work. I like the idea of a Cuben VBL top/bottom combo or a cuben VBL liner—weight would trade across the board ( infact, it could come in lighter)
—-unless Ryan rules that previously unmade custom equipment is not allowed for purposes of this game.

We should decide on his mode of travel,gang. See my earlier post advocating snowshoes (and why)

Finally, we should pay attention to the clothing he will be wearing (not counted towards base weight)
I would suggest for starters the following:

Topside— Icebreaker Bodyfit 260 L/S Tech Top ( about 12 oz. med.)
—Golite Momentum Softshell (12 oz. M)
—ID eVENT Jacket (W/B layer) — oversized
to size large (9.5 oz. )
— Gloves (possum wool)—(1.8 oz.)
— Overmitts ( BMW Vapor Mitts @ 4 oz.)
—Balaclava-Golite CTE (2.5Oz.)

Bottoms— synthetic baselayer – Golite LW C-Thru
Tights (4 oz.)
— softshell pant-Golite Propel (10 oz.)
— W/B hardshell pant-ID eVENT pant
(10 oz.)
I don’t strongly advocate specific makes above so
change away.

But, what am I anyway,his mother? I feel I’m dressing him too warmly. I would subtract a layer here,a layer there, for myself. I get all parental when I suggest clothing for other people.

Also, throw in a Photon Freedom light on a string for backup and a Suunto X6 or S6 altimeter watch.

[Michael Martin]

Nice clothing list, Kevin.

Since the whole trip is supposed to be sub-freezing, I suggest ditching the eVent stuff, although he’ll still need something else (with a hood) on top.

Also, I believe the Golite Propel pants have a powerstretch backside. I’d suggest something w/ better weather protection like Arcteryx Gamma MX, or some Dryskin pants.

How do you feel about Panoptyx sunglasses?

Snowshoes work for me. They’re lighter than a ski setup anyway. I’ve heard good things about Northern Lights (sp?), but haven’t used them personally.

[kevin davidson]

The Panoptyx would work well.
MM–
As to the eVENT layer, I think W/B hardshells have a place in these temps. as a means of additional low bulk/weight warmth. If you ever dig out a snowcave, one really appreciates the value of a hardshell to keep you dry.

Gamma MX or dryskin works for me as would Beyond Fleece’s Cold Fusion or Vayu Pants (using Schoeller’s WB-400 softshell material).

Snowshoes–Snowshoes–Snowshoes

[J R]

Maybe it might be more efficient to decide on a packing checklist first.

Rather than worry about individual items and their weights, figure out what general items need to get packed and then find the lightest specific items to fit the need.

[kevin davidson]

Would you care to generate one?
I’m not feeling quite lucid enough. I’ve spent much of the a.m. in a spray booth—lacquer.

Like…far out, mannn…

[Bill Fornshell]

Don’t be so persumptuous to think a VBL suit hasn’t been though about. I expect one day soon you will see all soft goods made out of Cuben material to test to see how/if it will work. I am working on a pair of pants at this time but I want to put full side zips on it. I have some light YKK 2-way separating zippers 26″ long but want some 35″ long. I am on hold waiting for a phone call to see if I can get them. They would be #3 coil YKK zippers. Very light. The 26″ zippers that I have weigh 10 grams. I am also waiting on some shorter zippers same kind but 14″ long to put on the sides of a shirt. I will use the 26″ zippers on the pants if it will take awhile to get the 35″ zippers. I want to try the shirt and pants out on a hike that will start the week before Christmas.

My plan is to start at Newfound Gap and take the AT south back to Fontana Dam. Adjust my gear as necessary and continue south on the AT to Dicks Creek Gap. I am hoping to see some snow.

[John S.]

At Kevin’s request, gear list updated to remove goggles and replace with sportsglasses.

[J R]

“Would you care to generate one? “

Nope.
I just find that its often easiest to sort out the abstract then worry about the details.

[Bob Gabbart]

I agree with Joe Robbins. You guys should first sort out an abstract SUL winter list without worry about specifc brands/models. Then once the abstract list is agreed to, go back and decide on the specific brand/model.

[kevin davidson]

Well, Joe— those who do the work decide.

I think that we just will have to play off of John’s
base weight list and my stuff worn list until someone else steps in.

How about you, Bob G?
It is a good idea.

[John S.]

With that last change and removal from the base weight, we have nearly 5 ounces to do something else with. Kevin’s space blanket bag might be in order for a cheap, light vbl.

[kevin davidson]

my space blanket bag? But let’s add a VBL liner (whether mylar or cuben) to the list, anyway(say 2 -2 1/2 oz.).Map is an oz. too heavy–1 will do. Still need those xtra sox.

[John S.]

Ooops that was Michael that mentioned the vbl space bag like this

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/amk_emergency_sleeping_bag.html

It is interesting that in Ryan’s Winter gearlist he doesn’t mention an additional pair of socks, but we can surely add them.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00277.html

[J R]

It was just an idea Kev… Im not interested in deciding anything for anyone but me.

I dont need the karma of a jordansicle.

[kevin davidson]

I think the mylar bag is the one–2 1/2 oz. and BPL sells it.
I know about that list and I think that Ryan spaced it on the sox. He also apparently thought that a synthetic bag was more appropriate to snowcave living at that time. I think that for 2-3 nights that he can get away w/ down—especially using a VBL
and the other creature comforts that we’re giving him on the gear list.

He should have a candle–great for warming up a snow cave ( if properly constructed for ventilation) if used carefully.

I expect Ryan to carve out a raised sleeping platform and shelves (note:please document, Ryan)
— we want him to live in the style that he is accustomed to as the Martha Stewart of UL Backpacking.

Joe, don’t get so familiar– that’s Herr Professor Doktor Davidson, to you. :-P

[Ryan Jordan]

The idea of this exercise is that you guys not add all this extraneous stuff, so that skills / techniques can replace some reliance on gear… ;) I do appreciate the extra socks, but if it came right down to it, I do reserve the right to ditch (but not add) gear at the car.

[kevin davidson]

OK Ryan— how about my 2 1/2 # list of earlier?
Total reliance on skill and technique.

How about one little hint of what feels extraneous to you.

[Ryan Jordan]

>> How about one little hint of what feels extraneous to you.

Clothing I can’t wear or sleep in at any time. In other words, if the clothing is there as an “extra”, then I’d like the flexibility to BOTH wear AND sleep in it.

A waterproof shelter? I mean, shouldn’t it be cold enough that dry snow just sort of falls off it ;)

[Ryan Faulkner]

I recomend bringing a G5 instead of a G6, using a arc alpinist instead of an arc X, bringing Coccon pants, mitts, and jacket, cooking over fires to save weight and to provide extra warmth wile around camp, using a mont bell breeze dry tec cover because it provides a little more warmth and is fully waterproof just in case Ryan cannot build a snow cave it provides more weather protection than a vapor bivy, also add a space blanket ground cloth to provide extra warmth to the sleep system and to use in an emergencey (down bag looses loft) for sun glasses check out the ones on the gossamer gear website and by the way bring extra socks

Ryan Faulkner
(not Ryan Jordan)

(P.S. I always bring a space blanket in the winter because it dose add some warmth to my sleep system as a ground cloth and I feel a litle more secure with my down bag knowing I have one. I think 2oz is worth it)

[Ryan Faulkner]

check thease out for ultralight sun glasses

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Sport_Eyz.html

[kevin davidson]

Who said anything about a waterproof shelter? I’m missing something here. I thought we were only tossing in a nano tarp and bivy.

Double duty clothing for sleeping—micropore rainsuit–you can dig out a snowcave or trench with it. You could use it to sleep in if you shake the snow and perspiration off of it—it would be a quasi-VBL as it is a W/B— more warmth anyway if necessary. Ditto an eVENT suit –more durable,comfortable and heavy.

Glad you appreciate a 2nd pair of sox.

Yep, Ryan F. –they would probably work,too and lighter—but I have no personal experience with them. I trust they are optically perfect.

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