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Sub 1 lb. Intellectual Exercise


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  • #1435465
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    Sweet Packtarp … good idea.

    #1435466
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    Bill … how did your cuben sleeping bag work out?

    Is Cuben a viable option for a quilt/bag?

    #1435487
    Aaron Sorensen
    BPL Member

    @awsorensen

    Locale: South of Forester Pass

    Yeah,
    He can do is Tinuc that weigh so he is not compaining about it being too hot to wear.

    Then you can take off the 1.5 ounces for the pack.
    changed the list to reflect this.
    Now you're below 1 pound agian, (on my list).

    #1435492
    Bill Fornshell
    BPL Member

    @bfornshell

    Locale: Southern Texas

    Cuben Hammock:

    With the tree rope removed the Hammock weighs 3.375 ounces. I am thinking about a way to use that white cord with the red stripe for the tree rope. It is very strong and very light. I need a way to protect the tree bark from the cord but I think I have a way to do that with something I could be wearing. If that works then I might be very close to the 4 ounce mark Aaron is looking for.

    My Food:

    My dry food is packed in coffee filters and then the empty coffee filter is used as TP.

    Each serving of dry food is equal to 282.5 calories. I mix this with about 8 ounces of water and drink it. I have two servings in the morning before hiking and then every 90 minutes while I am hiking I have one serving. At the end of the hiking day I have two servings. Each serving weighs about 2.32 ounces and gives me a total balance of all the nutritional stuff I need.

    Sub 2 Pound Georgia Hike Gear: Oct 2006 – temps from 37 to 55 degrees F. Coldest overnight was 42 degrees F. It was 37 degrees on the morning of day 1.

    Springer Mountain – Oct 2006 – Temperature was 37 degrees F. It stayed cool with a good breeze all day but did warm up to about the mid 40's. Perfect weather for a hike.

    It was 72 degrees when I got back from my walk at 10 PM. The weather here is getting real close to what it might be on the southern end of the AT this summer. It makes for good test weather. Our low for the night is going to be about 70 F.

    I will try and catch up on all the question tomorrow.

    #1435503
    Richard D.
    BPL Member

    @legkohod

    Locale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus

    Bill,

    >> With the tree rope removed the Hammock weighs 3.375 ounces. I am thinking about a way to use that white cord with the red stripe for the tree rope. It is very strong and very light. I need a way to protect the tree bark from the cord but I think I have a way to do that with something I could be wearing. If that works then I might be very close to the 4 ounce mark Aaron is looking for.

    How about wrapping a piece of 3-6'' wide rough and tough fabric around the tree, then wrapping the white cord? Perhaps tyvek would work for that? Soft tyvek might actually give you better grip than homewrap.

    With about .5 oz of additional weight that hammock can be made into a usable tarp as well.

    #1435508
    Diplomatic Mike
    Member

    @mikefaedundee

    Locale: Under a bush in Scotland

    How about a combined bivvy-bag/poncho/pack combo? The head-end of the bivvy could be the sack. Armholes would enable the bivvy to be worn rolled up as a pack. A drawstring foot would enable the bivvy to be rolled down for walking in rain. If you use the tarp/poncho as a sack, what do you do when it rains?

    #1435510
    Richard D.
    BPL Member

    @legkohod

    Locale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus

    Hold your pack over your head and walk fast:)))

    #1435545
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    I did some testing with hard structure Tyvek for hammock applications.

    The strength wasn't high enough for me … YMMV

    #1435568
    Paul Foreman
    Member

    @fish3006

    pole and rig a way to keep stuff like TP, first-aid and other small items in the pole, and still be able to pull – or push – it out for use.

    #1435571
    te – wa
    BPL Member

    @mikeinfhaz

    Locale: Phoenix

    to avoid damaging a tree, simply place two thumb sized sticks vertically on the backside (at 2 and 10 o'clock) of the tree. They will take the most pressure. Sticks can hopefully be found under the tree, where they normally reside. :)

    #1435587
    Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear
    Spectator

    @huzefa

    Locale: Himalayas

    on the note of multiuse how about a half (bottom) bivy/pack. It can be zipped to your jacket/caguole for complete protection form elements AND bugs. You can have corded cuffs in the jacket/caguale to seal of elements and bugs. And instead of a full headnet you can cinch your hood and use your towel for bug protection and breathing through.

    #1435593
    Jay Wilkerson
    BPL Member

    @creachen

    Locale: East Bay

    You guys are really pushing SUL envelope- too SPARTAN!! What about just being comfortable and happy when your hiking?

    #1435598
    Richard D.
    BPL Member

    @legkohod

    Locale: Eastern Europe / Caucasus

    >> to avoid damaging a tree, simply place two thumb sized sticks vertically on the backside (at 2 and 10 o'clock) of the tree. They will take the most pressure. Sticks can hopefully be found under the tree, where they normally reside. :)

    Ah, elegant idea! Makes you want to cry, "DUH!" :)) Bill, what do you think of this?

    #1435604
    Jesse Glover
    Member

    @hellbillylarry

    Locale: southern appalachians

    Interesting thread, I have a few thoughts as the southern appalachians in my home.

    #1 why carry a shelter at all? Just sleep in the AT shelters.
    #2 You will not need rain gear in june just get wet you won't melt. Plus it cools you off
    #3 sleeping pad? who posted that cut some pine boughs if you need to.

    #1435617
    John Haley
    Member

    @quoddy

    Locale: New York/Vermont Border

    <<#1 why carry a shelter at all? Just sleep in the AT shelters.
    #2 You will not need rain gear in june just get wet you won't melt. Plus it cools you off
    #3 sleeping pad? who posted that cut some pine boughs if you beed to.>>

    Wow! Then you could be not just a Shelter Rat, but rather a Wet Shelter Rat… who coincidentally helps destroy the forest.

    #1435621
    Bill Fornshell
    BPL Member

    @bfornshell

    Locale: Southern Texas

    Sub 1 Pound (WORKING DRAFT) Format – I will edit this list as suggestions are considered)
    ===============================

    1. – PACK – SHELTER – SLEEPING

    2. – CLOTHING WORN and ITEMS CARRIED

    3. – EXTRA CLOTHING PACKED

    4 – COOKING AND HYDRATION SYSTEMS

    5 – MISCELLANY

    ===============================
    TOTAL WEIGHT in PACK
    TOTAL WEIGHT WORN or CARRIED:
    TOTAL SKIN-OUT WEIGHT – Less Consumables (Food, Fuel, and Water, etc)

    6 – CONSUMABLES (Medicine, Food, Fuel, Water, etc) (We Decide – A small group of Emergency items might also go here but with a low Max weight limit. What are your thoughts???

    ==========================================================

    ==========================================================

    29 May 2008 – 1530
    Draft #2

    1. PACK – SHELTER – SLEEPING: (Pick or Add to)
    1-a. MYOG – Backpack (?)
    Cuben Pack 1.50 +/-? NOTE: Mike R. suggested maybe using "pockets" to carry our gear. It might seem that you could carry all this in pockets but I think not when counting 3 to 5 days of food. The pack at 1 to 1.5 ounces will make carrying your gear etc so much easier and then at night I use my pack bag as my Bear Bag.

    1-c. Pack liner(?) GG-med 1.35

    1-d. Shelter
    Ground Shelter:
    1-d-1. Sleep at a Shelter or use a MYOG – Poncho / Tarp 2.80 +/-
    1-d-2. Stakes for Poncho / Tarp (6) 1.23
    1-d-3. Guylines for Poncho / Tarp (6) 1.42
    1-d-4. Bug Protection (?)


    5.45+

    Hammock: (Note: Something is necessary to protect the tree bark from the hammock cord if the thin white cord is used. It might be as simple as a few sticks under the hammock tree cord up to some type of man made tree huggers. I would go for a multi use item so any Forest Rangers that might ask should be happy when I show them my man-made tree huggers.
    1-d-5. Cuben Hammock 4.0 +/-
    1-d-6. ADM PackTarp (Axel O.) 3.899 0z Est.?

    1-e. Sleeping System(?)
    1-e-2. MYOG – PolarGuard Delta Sleeping Bag 1-Layer 8.76
    1-e-3. MYOG – Climashield – Combat Quilt / Liner – Good to 40 degrees in Bivy 6.64

    1-f. Sleeping Pad GG ThinLight Pad – 3/8"(?)
    1-f-1. Back Pad 1.6
    1-f-2. Butt Pad 0.652
    1-f-3. Thigh Pad 0.894
    1-f-4. Lower Leg Pad 0.965



    1-e-6. GG ThinLight Pad – 1/4"(?)(cut for Bivy) 6.31 – 1/4"(?)(cut for Sleeping Bag) 3.35
    1-f-1. MYOG Bivy Sack – Sleeping at a Shelter or with a Tarp. 4.0 +/-?
    1-g-1. Ground Sheet Use with Bivy or Tarp – GG Polycryo Cloth (M) 1.65


    2. CLOTHING: (Pick or Add to)
    Hiking Pants EX Officio-Convertible Pants W/Leg Zip Off 13.05w?
    Hiking Shirt EX Officio-Shirt-LS 9.89w?

    Base / wicking layer top (?)
    2-a-1. Patagonia #1 Capailene LS xl(5.6oz)Hoody(?) (?)
    2-a-3. Patagonia #2 Wool Hoody(L) 8.0p(?)
    2-a-4. Patagonia #2 Wool Sleeveless top (3.35 oz)

    Base / wicking layer bottom (?)
    2-b-4 Sahalie-Ultralight Tights(?) 1.6p(?)
    Insulating top (?)
    2-c-2
    Vest 3.0p
    Insulating bottoms (?) MYOG(?)

    Raingear (top only)(?)
    2-e-1 Cuben Poncho(counted as tarp) (2.8)
    Raingear (bottoms) (?)
    2-f-1
    Cuben Rain Pants 1.2p

    Waterproof glove shells(?)
    2-g-1
    Cuben Mitts 0.37p

    Windgear (soft shell) top(?) Marmont Ion – Replace with MYOG p(?)
    Windgear Pertex Quantum Vest? – About 1 ounce.
    Windgear (soft shell) bottoms(?) Cuben Rain Pants(?)
    Glove Liners (?)
    2-h-3 – size M Patagonia Lightweight Glove Liners(?) 0.83p
    Tilley Hat LT6 3.27w
    Socks (?) Wright-Sock 1/4 1.7w
    Spare socks(?) Wright-Sock 1/4 1.7p
    Vapor Barrier Booties
    Cuben 0.23p
    Trail Runners(?)
    2-j-3 ???????- size 10-10.5 29.1+/-w(?)
    Trail Runner Rain Covers(?)
    2-k-2 MYOG – Cuben(?) ?
    Clothing stuff sack (?) (?)
    Suspenders for Pants(?) 2.89w(?)



    Pack: ???? oz / Wear: ????

    Note:
    1 – Wear = ? oz. This is equal to "wear" most of the time. Nasty weather may require I wear more at times. Very warm weather may require I wear less at times.

    3. COOKING – WATER: (Pick or Add to)

    Fire Starter Rubber Pieces 0.11p
    10 Kitchen Matches 0.08p
    Drinking Mug 12 oz Soda Can 0.42p
    Utensils Home-Made Long Ti Spoon 0.28p
    Food storage bag Zip Locks(?) (?)
    Bear bag hang system Weight counted with Pack – Pack used as Bear Bag 0.0
    Water storage (?)
    2+ Liter Plat Bottle (84 fl oz) 1/2? each(*3) 1.245p
    1 Liter Platy "bottle" 2 each(?) 1.74(?)p
    Platy 2 Reservoir (2 L) 1.13 x 2 2.26(?)p
    Nalgene 48 oz Cantene(2.3oz)* 5 serving Liquid Food container (*1) 2.3p
    Nalgene 32 oz Canteen(2.1oz)* 4 serving Liquid Food container (*2) 2.1?p
    Water treatment (?)Pick one or more.
    3-a-1. Aquamira Drops?
    3-a-2. Katadyn Micropur MO1 Tablets (15 = 0.41) (0.41?)p
    3-a-3. Klear Water?
    3-a-43 Cuben Gravity Water Filter – Group Hike If Taken – 5.61 (?)
    Esbit Tablets 1 each(?) 0.5p


    4. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS: (Pick or Add to)

    Flashlight / LED 1 white photon(CR2016x1) Key Ring 0.2c
    Flashlight ARC-AAA 0.74p
    Trekking poles (3.67 x 2) Home-Made Trekking Pole 7.35c
    Headnet(?) When necessary- add 0.33 oz 0.33p
    Ear plugs (?) 0.07p
    Bug dope 0.5p
    Toothbrush toothbrush 0.05p
    Toothpaste (use Dr. Bronner's) 0.0p
    Soap(?) Dr. Bronner's soap 0.5p
    Potty trowel
    Home-Made Ti 0.31p
    First Aid Kit Blister & minor wound care,etc (1oz) 1.0p) Note: as per Art I will check on the weight of the Antibiotic packs – I think Dr Bonners might work for this.
    Repair Kit Extra Batteries, etc (?)p
    Sun Glasses Good Ones 2.9(?) 2.9c?
    Watch/ Compass 2.5c
    Maps (?)c

    Camera Kit – (Listed as a frame of reference for the weight of items)
    4-c-1 Casio – EX-Z750, Extra batt-SD Card 5.5p(?)
    4-c-2 Gorillapod Tripod 1.5p(?)
    4-c-3 aloksak – 4×7 bag for camera & stuff 0.23p

    Journal Kit – (Listed as a frame of reference for the weight of items)
    4-d-2 "Cuben" Rite In The Rain notebook 0.17p
    4-d-3 Nalgene Waterproof Pen 0.3p
    4-d-4 iPhone(?) (?)


    Pack ???? oz / Carry ???? oz

    5. CONSUMABLES: (Pick or Add to)

    Food: (Food for Bill)
    5-a-1 Dry Ensure – 1 day (10 servings per day). X number of servings of dry food packed (one serving each) in a coffee filter (0.056 oz+/-) The coffee filter is recycled as TP with each filter equal to two sheets of TP. Total dry food weight is 20.5 ounces and equals 2500 calories. (Calorie numbers used for planning only and can change)
    5-a-2 Carnation Breakfast Mix – 1 day (10 – servings) in a Zip Lock weighs 2.7 ounces and equals 325 calories.
    5-a-3 Hammer Perpetuem – 1 day (2 – servings) in a Zip Lock weighs 4.23 ounces and equals 520 calories.
    5-a-4 Total calories per day to start will be 3540. This number will be adjusted up or down as necessary. Total food only weight is 27.43 ounces (1 pound, 11.43 ounces). Food packing weight is 1.74 ounces +/-. The large food zip locks (0.46 oz) will be recycled for over-night water storage, clean-up water, as a portable washing machine and other things.
    5-a-4 Food Totals Per Re-Supply 1 day = 29.2 oz / 1.82 lb
    2 days = 58.4 oz / 3.64 lb
    3 days = 87.6 oz / 5.46 lb
    4 days = 116.8 oz / 7.28 lb
    5 days = 146 oz / 9.1 lb

    Water 2 L average carried (?) 64.0 / 4 – lb (?)
    Fuel Maybe No Hot Meals – Liquid Diet (?) 0.0
    Medicine (?)


    ?.?? lb (?)

    In Pack – ??.?? oz (?.?? lb) (Goal for Sub 1- lb / 32 ounces.
    Wear / Carry – ??.?? oz (?.?? lb)
    Consume -???.?? oz (?.?? lb)


    ???.?? oz

    Total Hike Weight … ?? lb / ?.?? oz (?)

    Total Pack Weight Start Day 1 … ???.?? oz or ?? lb / ?.?? oz (?)

    Section 1 Springer Mountain to Neels Gap (1st resupply) = 2.5 days food = ???? pounds + ???? pounds = ????? pounds.
    Section 2 Neels Gap to ? etc – etc –

    #1435646
    Jesse Glover
    Member

    @hellbillylarry

    Locale: southern appalachians

    "Wow! Then you could be not just a Shelter Rat, but rather a Wet Shelter Rat… who coincidentally helps destroy the forest."

    Ok John I meant the pine bough thing as a joke but whatever just sleep on the ground. As far as being wet, I NEVER carry rain gear in the summer. Just wear shorts and no shirt or a sleeveless shirt. and carry sleep clothes. (silk long johns and a comax shirt.) And you only have to sleep in the shelters if it might rain which is almost never lately.

    BTW you could go alot lighter as far as clothes anyway on the pinhoti trail in alabama. Not sure of the shelter situation on the entire trail but the ones I have stayed in were really clean.

    #1435653
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    I ordered some spectra cord and cuben fiber today to make XSUL pack version 2.0 ….. I think I want to make another prototype before I cut cuben.

    What size does the pack need to be for this exercise?

    The next concept I wanted to propose was using a Bivy/Sleeping bag design with the foot and bottom made from Cuben and the top of nanoseeum. Then having a 3/4 length hoodless poncho tarp from the knees up only. This gets us sub 2oz on the shelter, and with 3 yards of cuben at 1.8 oz and 1.7 yards of nanoseeum at 1.2 oz for the top gives us a bug free bivy at 3 oz. 5 oz for raingear and shelter is about as light as I can think of.

    So, we have 6 oz or so for tarp/raingear, bivy, and pack.

    I'm still thinking about insulation and cook gear, but I think we should plan on hot food as a possibility … but esbits are all consumble if assume a piece of foil for a stove/windscreen and three pebbles as a pot stand.

    #1435656
    Aaron Sorensen
    BPL Member

    @awsorensen

    Locale: South of Forester Pass

    Bill,
    You need to shave down on the little essential things you have.

    I don't know how I can possibly be telling you this, but you'll be resuppling every 3 days or so.

    Deet in a micro bottle weighs 1/10 as what you have listed and will last you 3 days.

    You can make your own head net for .1 ounces

    You can use a piece of fabric to filter your water enough that the Klear water will take care of the rest.

    I'm just saying that there is no possible way you could even come close to 1 pound with all the gear you have.
    Two pounds will be hard enough.

    you need to make some sort of freaky hat that has mounts all over it so you can stick gear to it.

    Or just change the heading to:

    Sub 2 lb. Intellectual Exercise

    Mark, sent P.M. on the head-net

    #1435665
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    Tell me how you'd make a headnet for .1 oz????

    #1435687
    Bill Fornshell
    BPL Member

    @bfornshell

    Locale: Southern Texas

    Hi Aaron,

    Your are correct. I just took my Sub 2 pound as a starting point. I just haven't had time to drop everything back to a 1 pound mind set.

    Have faith the knife is about to come out. I just need to drink a Diet Coke to get me in the right mood.

    I will start my list on a diet as soon as I get back from my evening walk.

    We are getting some real good ideas for multi-used items.

    =====
    Aaron said
    "you need to make some sort of freaky hat that has mounts all over it so you can stick gear to it"
    =====

    I know how to do that.

    #1435749
    mark henley
    Member

    @flash582

    I just finished my 3rd prototype bivy … it's a cross between a Serenity shelter and a meteor bivy and I really like it.

    I'm going to make a full mock up out of some Spinnaker material I have laying around and some Nanoseeum netting. I'm figuring that I can get it into the sub 5 z range … possibly to 4 oz.

    The advantange, at least in my mind, is that I can go to a Minimum tarp and not sacrifice stormworthyness in the least.

    I'll keep everyone up to date as I go.

    Try as I might … I'm still having trouble coming up with a texas sized tunic/quilt that will come in at less than 8 oz unless I go to very light cuben. 5 oz of XP 2.5 and 1.33 ounces of light cuben fiber (.33 oz per square yard) yields 6.33 oz but adding a small strip of momentum on both sides will add another .75 ounce …. some hardware and your pushing the 8 oz mark.

    #1435767
    Bill Fornshell
    BPL Member

    @bfornshell

    Locale: Southern Texas

    Sub 1 lb. Intellectual Exercise – Working List

    "Cuben Bill and the Crystal Gear List"

    1. – PACK – SHELTER – SLEEPING

    1-a. Pack
    1-a-1. MYOG – Cuben Pack – 1.5 oz (maybe lighter – Final weight = Final size necessary)

    1-b. Shelter
    1-b-1. MYOG – Cuben Poncho / Tarp – 5.45 – worn so weight = 0.
    1-b-2. MYOG – Hybrid Hammock Tarp / Poncho – 2 oz -under development

    1-c. Sleeping
    1-c-1. MYOG – Cuben Hammock – 4.67 oz – worn so weight = 0.
    1-c-2. MYOG – Bug System – (under development)

    Note: This is my first attempt at folding these items so I can wear them. I have several ideas that should make them look a bit better. It is about 80 F and sunny here today. I am going to take a walk sometime this afternoon and see if I get to hot. If I am to hot I might have to try "commando" and see if that is any cooler.

    ======

    This picture was added on 2 May and is closer to what a Great Kilt might look like.

    Section 1 – working total to date – 1.5 ounces
    ============================

    2. – CLOTHING WORN and ITEMS CARRIED

    3. – EXTRA CLOTHING PACKED

    4 – COOKING AND HYDRATION SYSTEMS – Under Construction

    4-a-1. 12 oz Soda Can – mix and drink liquid food. – 0.423 oz
    4-a-2. MYOG – Long Handle Ti Spoon – 0.28 oz
    4-a-3. Platy 2 Reservoir (2L) 1.13 x 2 = 2.26 oz
    4-a-4. Water Treatment – Klear Water ? in micro bottle – 0.05 oz
    4-a-5. 1 Esbit Tablet ? – 0.5 oz

    Section 2 – working total to date – 3.513

    5 – MISCELLANY

    ===============================
    TOTAL WEIGHT in PACK
    TOTAL WEIGHT WORN or CARRIED:
    TOTAL SKIN-OUT WEIGHT – Less Consumables (Food, Fuel, and Water, etc)

    6 – CONSUMABLES (Medicine, Food, Fuel, Water, etc) (We Decide – A small group of Emergency items might also go here but with a low Max weight limit. What are your thoughts??? )

    #1435798
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    Cuben diaper?………j/k

    #1435834
    Adam Rothermich
    BPL Member

    @aroth87

    Locale: Missouri Ozarks

    WOO Bill!! I must say, you'll have to fight the ladies off with a stick.

    Though the first thing I thought about upon seeing the picture was Borat's bathing suit. [Shudders]

    All kidding aside, you all are so much more creative than I am. All the innovative ideas flowing from this thread are really making me think.

    Adam

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