CANISTERS VS WHITE GAS

[Wesley Witt]

Why not just buy them when you arrive in Albuquerque? Don't really need to deal with the trading post at Philmont.

[Timothy F Mulligan]

Just returned from Philmont. Used MSR WindPro with MSR IsoPropane canisters which were available in back country commisaries (Ute Gulch and Phillips Junction) for $4.95 each for 8oz. canisters – cheaper than elsewhere and with no sales taxes charged by Philmont.

Staffed camps accepted our empty canisters with our garbage. Biggest problem we had was over-estimating our consumption because Scouts carrying canisters didn't always get them out of their packs at campsites. We thought we had used more than we actually had. Bought more than we needed in backcountry and left (3) full and (1) partial in the swap box at last staffed camp and carried one to base camp.

Don't forget to check the Advisor's lounge. We had been told there is usually a supply left there because you can't take them on the plane ride home. When we arrived at Philmont no treks had yet returned from trail and so there were none to be found.

[Phil Barton]

We just returned from Philmont this week. We had another successful use of MSR Windpro stoves. We carried 2 full canisters for each stove. With our small crew we were better able to track our use — nearly 2 complete canisters used for each stove. With canisters now available at backcountry trading posts canisters are hard to beat — fast, easy to use, no flare-up, and lightweight.

[Glenn Smith]

Our two crews (7 persons each) just returned on Friday, July 10th. We did Trek 25 and Trek 30. Both crews used two large MSR isobutane canisters with a Jetboil Helios stove with a 2L and 3L pot. We cooked with turkey bags. Everything worked great.

[Bob Summers]

I'll be taking two crews (total 19 people), hiking as sister crews on trek 25 at Philmont in 2 weeks. We'll be using canisters.

How much gas to take? We'll have a Jet Boil, 2 MSR Reactors (about as efficient as a Jet Boil) and a backup Snow Peak Gigapower.

I'm guessing that we'll need about 9 – 8 Oz (227 gram) canisters for the whole trip. Does that sound right?

I plan on calling the Tooth of Time Traders a few days before we go to verify that canisters are available. If not, we'll have to make a bus stop to pick some up in Albuquerque.

[Phil Barton]

Robert, our experience has been that we used about 2 canisters for each stove over the entire Philmont trek. We used turkey bag cooking for dinner. We made coffee every morning. There were 2 oatmeal breakfasts for each trip.

If you need more we found that you can resupply fuel while on your trek.

MSR and Primus brand canisters were available at Tooth of Time Traders at base camp and at all of the backcountry trading posts we've visited.

[Glenn Smith]

Definitely check the advisors lounge upon arrival. My other advisor told me there were a lot of canisters available in the lounge with various amounts of fuel in them. Certainly worth a look!

[Bob Summers]

Thanks for your responses.

The easier it is to get canisters, the less we have to carry. If I verify that canisters are available at the Tooth of Time Traders, we can check the advisors' lounge. With luck, we might be able to scrouge all that we need :-)

Likewise, if they assure us at headquarters that canisters are available in the backcountry, we can run closer to the edge. I just don't want to be eating cold, dry Philfood while I'm there.

[Glenn Smith]

Bob,

Canisters are definitely available at Ute Gulch, Baldy Town, Phillips Junction, and Ponil Trading posts.

You should be fine.

[Mallory Caldwell]

Guys. This thread very helpful.

We have 12 total in our patrol (3 adult, 9 scouts) — at the "Philmont of the East" (the High Knoll Trail in Virginia).

We have planned 3 total stoves (1 msr reactor, 1 jetboil "pcs", and 1 jetboil "helios") with a selection of the larger matching pots.

Is 1 stove for every 4 people enough?
Are three stoves with combined boiling capacity of 6.5 liters sufficient for rehydrating meals for 12?

Thanks!
M

[Glenn Smith]

Mallory,

Take the Helios with the 2L and 3L pots. In my opinion that set-up should be sufficient. The reason you are taking these types of stoves is the speed of heating water. We typically only heat water for the evening meal. The other stoves are redundant given the speed of the Helios. My thoughts only.

Glenn

[Donald Howard]

"we used about 2 canisters for each stove over the entire Philmont trek".
What size canisters?

[Glenn Smith]

My guess is that it would be the 8 oz. canisters but that is only based on our crews' set-up. The majority if not all of the back country trading posts carry the canisters.

[Phil Barton]

As Glenn says, the 8 ounce canisters are readily available at Philmont. Our crews have used 2 x 8 oz. canisters per stove over a trek.

Don't get too concerned about resupply. You can obtain resupply at the backcountry trading posts. Practicing the meal routine with your crew before you go can help increase your confidence in the fuel supply. You'll have a great time at Philmont!

[bill berklich]

So our Troop is taking 2 MSR WhisperLites for a Crew of 12 (3 Adults, 9 Scouts). The plan was to take 3 16 oz fuel bottles. Question one is 48oz of fuel enough and question two can you buy liquid fuel at the back country commisaries? Thought about switching to canisters but lots of pushback from the older Troop Leaders.

[Sarah Kuhn]

Depending on how efficiently you cook you should have adequate fuel, but just like canister availability white gas is available in the back country, just take something to filter the gas through – I have heard that the gas in the back country tends to be dirtier than at base camp. We took 2 16oz bottles in 2010 for our 8 man crew and had gas to get rid of at base camp when we got back….

Enjoy!
Sarah

[Alan henson]

Can you use alcohol stoves? My white box stove alcohol saves me a lot of weight vs bringing my pocket rocket and canister stove.

[John Myers]

The commissaries don't stock alcohol so you would have to carry 10 days worth of fuel. I don't see where they won't allow it though.

[Bruce Tolley]

From the web, BSA Chemical Fuels Policy
>>>
Prohibited Chemical-Fueled Equipment
Equipment that is handcrafted, homemade, modified, or installed beyond the manufacturer’s stated design limitations or use. Examples include alcohol-burning “can” stoves, smudge pots, improperly installed heaters, and propane burners with their regulators removed

Chemical Fuels not Recommended
Unleaded gasoline; liquid alcohol fuels, including isopropyl alcohol, denatured ethyl alcohol, and ethanol; and other flammable chemicals that are not in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for chemical-fueled equipment.
>>>

There have been several threads on this site about this topic.

Looks like homemade and pepsi can stoves are banned. A commercially manufactured stove like the Trangias sold at REI would be allowed. Alcohol sold as a stove fuel while not recommended would allowed. Everclear would most likely be banned since it is also a beverage. The irony here is during our trek on our last night with the Ranger, he pulled out a pepsi can stove and served up a dessert for the crew with it.

And as always if the worst case happens, and you are not in compliance with BSA safety policies, BSA liability insurance will not cover you in the event of lawsuits.

[Donald Howard]

Not that it makes much difference to the topic at hand but I don't believe that last statement is accurate.

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