Feb 19, 2008 at 11:29 pm #1227377
@kreppartLocale: Pacific Northwest
Could this possibly work?Feb 21, 2008 at 6:25 am #1421395
Actually, yeah it could and would… neat idea… for longterm use, I'd look at something other than toilet paper… interesting that he can get it to work with higher molecular weight fuel… it might work with olive oil…
I'd like to see what zelph might be able to add to this concept… he might have some ideas on wick… in truth this isn't too conceptually difference than his ring of fire stove…Mar 21, 2008 at 10:03 pm #1425170
Yeah I tried it, just made some tea in my heine pot tonight using a dozen layers of paper towel and some denatured. Very cool!
Also search instructables for the related article, "Build a low tech CFV stove," which ends up developing a more robust, encased version of the same thing.
I'm excited about this. I think Zelph's ROF was almost what I've been looking for, except that the up-facing combustion surface means that–barring an integrated pot-stand that elevates the pot above the stove–the pot can't really be bigger than the diameter of the stove. BUT, in this case the combustion surface faces outward, meaning that almost any size pot will do because it will never sit directly on the combustion ring, snuffing it out.
(I suppose if the pot was much bigger then you'd want to elevate the burner a little, and the pot a little above it, just to make sure O2 can get all the way in there to facilitate combustion.
Anyway, this definitely has big potential. I'm going to work on this, will post pics when I've got something interesting.Mar 22, 2008 at 9:48 am #1425210
These photos show how the Ring Of Fire has a raised pot stand that alows for much larger pots to be used. I used it to cook chicken in a Pressure cooker.
I suspect these photos will have to be cut and pasted to view. It's difficulf for me to search through my 1,500 stove related pics on my computer. Easier to view them on Photobkt. this site no longer excepts hosted pics.Mar 22, 2008 at 10:36 am #1425220
Zelph, I remember seeing this on bplite or something like that. What I like about the side-ported concept though is that:
A) I'd think the stove will get more complete usage of fuel since capillary action isn't working against gravity,
B) It seems like side-burners don't need their pots very elevated in order to do their jobs, unlike top-burners which need a space of an inch or so (?)
Reasonable estimates? In any case, I'm sure the performance of your ROF and this CFV will probably be similar in the end, I just imagine that the CFV concept can be used to create a stove that is more compact, a teensy bit more versatile flexible, and ultimately a little lower to the ground. These are mostly aesthetic concerns . . . but hey that's what I'm going for.
A few questions about the second pic, Dan:
1) Are the two stoves the same? Is it just that one has its cover on (for snuffing and transporting?) and the other doesn't?
2) On the left stove I see a central fuel reservoir with bleed holes on the edge to let alc wick up into the spongy stuff (FB cloth?). Is that right? I like the idea of a central reservoir a lot, I just have some concerns about it. First, does this not grow hot during the burn and try to pressurize? Seems dangerous. Second, if you take the pot off the stove during the burn, doesn't it open up the reservoir to oxygen and allow it to ignite?
3) What kind of insulative wrap do you have on the Heines in the background? That's cool-looking stuff.Mar 22, 2008 at 12:50 pm #1425235
The burners need to be elevted to prvent scorching a wooden surface and to provide air to circulate. The cfv stove needs to be elevated in some manner, something you need to cary with you, something that takes away from the compactness of your stove. We find it difficult to get something for nothing. Hard to get compactness. I will try this new CFV approach. I'll make one that's capable of holding 1/2 oz fuel(15ml) and see if I can get a boil.
I'll be back to answer your other questions, I need to view the photos again. The ROF does have a cover for transporting and it's also used to raise the stove when using pots larger than the Heinekens or Fosters. The ROF was specifically designed to be used with Heinekens. The original ROF was used to heat 2 cups of water in an aluminum "Snapple" energy drink bottle. It has been made in many sizes. One has been made to fit a soup can inside to heat 1 can of soup. A real hobo size stove. One can of soup at a time. The design goes against all other stoves. It's radical(love those free radicals) all the heat goes on the sides of the pot. The ROF is the most stable of stoves.(so far) I tried to find a photo of the Medusulla stove. An aluminum one with wicks sticking out it's sides, pot sits right on the stove.
Mar 22, 2008 at 8:33 pm #1425266
Both stoves are the same. One has a cover.
The bleed holes are holes that have a festner in them to hold the wick and pot supports firmly to the stove. There are four of them to make sure the wick stays put!!!!
When using the ROF to heat large pots, heat builds up and causes a more rapid release of vapors. Using 17ml to heat 2 cups of water in a pot of any kind does not have an adverse effect on the evaporation of fuel. The fiberglass releases the fuel in a controlled fashion rather than radical.
If you take the pot off the stove you have a large amount of flame being exposed because of the central resevoir of fuel. Regulate the amount of fuel needed and let it burn thouroghly out while you attend to other tasks or just sit back and enjoy your surroundings. It's ok if the stove goes out and the water drops 10 degrees. We live in a real world. We try to leave it once on a trail, kick back and relax. Don't fret if you cant boil water with 1/2 ounce of fuel.The Heineken cans in the background are wrapped with textured aluminum foil to cover the graphics on the cans. I had my hands slapped by ebay for showing and using the name Heineken in the photos used to sell the ROF. They pulled my listing before it ended. Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained : )Mar 22, 2008 at 9:11 pm #1425268
CFV stove made with fiberglass between stainless steel mesh. Has a fuel capacity of 17ml. I'll test burn it on Monday to see if it will boil 2 cups water with 17ml fuel.
Mar 23, 2008 at 7:47 pm #1425342
@markhurdLocale: South Texas
This stove is amazing! (See link at the top of this thread.)
I made mine out of about 20 thicknesses of Brawny paper towel (stack about 3/8 inch thick). I drew a circle around the bottom of my Heiny can where it narrows down on the paper towel, Then cut my circles about 1/8 of an inch larger all the way around. I then cut a circle out of an disposable aluminum roasting pan the same size. I place a small can, about the diameter of the Heiny can, bottom up. I set the stack of paper towels on top poured 15 ml of 91% isopropyl alcohol on the stack then placed the piece of aluminum on the stack and then the Heiny pot with 2 cups of 60 F water. Light and 5:19 min later I had 212 F water which continued to boil for another 1:25 min.!! Since I couldn't believe it I tried it again. It took 5:25 min to go from 60 F to 212 F and continued boiling for another 1:31 min. all on 15 ml of isopropyl!
I tried methyl alcohol (Heet), but 15 ml just got me from 60 F to 190 F before flame out. I tried several times, but the methanol just didn't have the heat capacity which is about right. Still 190 F is just fine for my purposes.
The isopropyl burned mostly blue with only a faint yellow tinge. When I tried it without the aluminum disk it didn't work as well. I think that it needs an even pressure across the whole paper towel stack which the the concave bottom of the Heiny can does not provide. If you had a flat bottom pot you probably wouldn't need the aluminum disk. The paper towel only chars along the edge, but does not burn beyond it. In fact, the charring seems to improve the burn as the flame is much more uniform after the first burn.
I can see several ways that one might improve this stove, so I will be playing with it some more.
I will be most interested in what Dan and others find, but a 5 gm stove that can use rubbing alcohol, to boil 2 cups of 60 F water in less than 6 min. is pretty sweet.
P.S. Test conditions were inside, no wind, air temp 61 F with 43% humidity.Mar 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm #1425451
Just a quick note on 3 test burns with mine. 2 cups boiled in 6 min using 20ml of denatured and continued to boil for 1 min. I'm confident that iso91 will give the same results with no soot deposition. The ROF stove initially was tested with Iso91 with positive results. Pictures will follow tomorrow.Mar 24, 2008 at 6:55 pm #1425453
@cuzzettjLocale: NorCal - South Bay
So did you modify this with fiberglass instead of paper? I am a little unsure as to what I read verses what I am seeing in the BPL posted pictures.
I love the idea of this stove and how it is getting even smaller than what I use now. I will make one this week. But if it works… How do we make it even better!Mar 24, 2008 at 7:26 pm #1425458
@markhurdLocale: South Texas
Dan made his out of fiberglass sandwiched between stainless steel screen. I used paper towel, but any absorbent material should work: coffee filters, diapers, cotton batting. It would be interesting to use different materials and see how they behave. As far as improvements, I will defer to Dan as he has way more experience than I have tinkering with stoves. Better yet-make your own and I'm sure you'll get a bunch of ideas.
-MarkMar 24, 2008 at 7:27 pm #1425459
@mcjhrobinsonLocale: Waaay West
i cant wait to try out this setup! i already have a plethora of materials lined up to try. good looking out ken! alohaMar 25, 2008 at 7:12 am #1425499
What's your take on whether the stove will work with a diameter slightly smaller than the pot (in order to fit the disk in the pot)? It seems to me most of the 'exact' size stuff was for ease of creation > saturate > put pot on > light > the paper towels 'trim' themselves by burning.
I haven't had a lot of time to look into it, but I thought I saw someone do this with a smaller diameter sandwiched between two disks.Mar 25, 2008 at 8:13 am #1425512
Josh, I'm working on the same thing exactly. Definitely enamored with the aesthetic value and simplicity of being able to stow my stove inside the pot.
The short answer is yes, it will definitely work. It worked with Zelph's ROF, so it can work with this guy too. The only rub is that you need to leave enough space for O2 to reach the stove and for burning gas to hit the pot and then get out of there. The solution is as simple as elevating the pot just a little, maybe a half inch or so, which is a modification that can easily be built into the stove itself.
If your pot is much wider than the stove, then even if it's elevated, I imagine it may still restrict optimal airflow to the stove, which could probably be remedied by then elevating the burner ports above the ground a little too. Just my guess.
But all in all, it should be easy, and work fine.Mar 25, 2008 at 1:35 pm #1425558
When using a smaller diameter than the pot elevate the stove at least 1/2 inch for the initial test burn. Like the one in my original photos. Go less untill you run out of oxygen. It's easy to center the pot on a stove of equal diameter. Going smaller will be more of a challenge.
I think the weight of my stove is 28 grams. I can make it lighter by using different fuel absorber and an aluminum base plate. I'll retain the top stainless mesh. The fuel absorber would be fire resistant like the fiberglass cloth/wick.
The flame only rises about 1.5 inches up the side of the pot. I know this blows the minds of stove makers. The line of thinking for most is flames need to be under the pot and not up the sides. So much for thinking inside the box.
Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained
Mar 25, 2008 at 1:58 pm #1425563
Okay… actually, upon thinking it over, I believe there's a simpler solution than raising the pot… use a sloped pot. Something similar to a SP TiBowl*
It'll fit in the bowl, (though it won't rest dead on the bottom, you can fill that space with other things) AND give it plenty of air flow.
*BTW, a SP TiBowl kick's the crap out of the BPL Firelite 500 for weight / volume capacity / $$$… but that's a different discussion…Mar 25, 2008 at 3:31 pm #1425581
Josh, interesting idea, but I think it raises other problems.
First, the bottom diameter of the SP ti bowl has got to be, what, 4 inches maybe? A fair deal more than a Heine can or even the BPL Firelite and its cousins. This means you'd need to make your burner meet this diameter at least, adding a good deal of weight to the stove (although we're talking a couple ozs here) and probably also adding a huge fuel capacity that just wouldn't be appropriate for the amount of water you'd be heating.
Second, in my opinion a taller-narrower form factor is much more packable. Just me.
Third, though this is just guesswork, with all your heat concentrated on the periphery of a pot that's already quite wide, you may end up getting very uneven heating. In a taller and narrower pot, where the major axis is height, convection currents in the water do most of the mixing (and therefore heat transfer) for you. Since the major axis of the ti bowl is width, and all your heat with the CFV stove would be on the edge, you may end up boiling the periphery several minutes before the center and just waiting for conduction and mixing to happen on its own to bring the center to a boil . . . which could be a little inefficient.
My $.02Mar 25, 2008 at 5:30 pm #1425595
Ian, I'm in agreement with you on a taller-narrower more packable.
In the beginning, the ROF started out with the name of Whatchamakallit. It was made to fit a Snapple Energy Drink bottle. Holds 2 cups of water nicely. Had better boil times than the ROF made for Heineken pot. I would suggest you make a burner to fit a narrow pot. Also pictured is a pot made from a Rockstar energy drink can.The snapple bottle is much more durable than the Rockstar or Jolt cans. Go durable. It's easy to make a wire pick-up bail for these bottles. No need to wrap heavy fiberglass wick around it in order to pick them up. I think it so counter productive for people to wrap their Heineken pots with the wick material. The 1/16" doesn't even work. Now theres a stove maker wrapping his Heineken Pot with 1/8 fiberglass wick, how rediculous.
These photos are of a Ring Of Fire type stove to heat water. Make your CFV stove to fit tall/narrow. Looking forward to your photos and results of burn test.
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:09 pm #1425600
What is the small cylinder above riddled with holes and wick wrapped around the bottom? It is the one about the size of a "gram-weenie" stove.Mar 25, 2008 at 6:16 pm #1425602
That little thing is part of a catalytic generator that's used to heat kerosene vapors to a high heat in a backpacking size kerosene stove. I'll try to start a thread tommorrow showing what it looks like.
The wick wrapped around it is a primer wick to jump start the heating of the kerosene.Mar 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm #1425607
Where do you get your Snapple bottles? Are they sold by a specific chain of convenience stores or gas stations? I'm afraid they may not be in my area . . . :-(Mar 25, 2008 at 7:03 pm #1425609
Got all of my snapple bottles at gas stations on the freeways and tollways here in Illinois.Mar 25, 2008 at 7:25 pm #1425613
Hmm . . . anyone in TX know if they're sold here?
If not, anybody outside my neighborhood wanna ship me some? Will pay, obviously.Mar 26, 2008 at 4:37 pm #1425737
@cuzzettjLocale: NorCal - South Bay
What about using 2-56 x ?(h) – Titanium hex head bolts as pot supports through this? It would add a little weight, but I would think it would be negligible and it 3-4 of them would make a fantastic stand.
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