Sleeping pad choices

[Patrick Craddock]

I'm hiking the PCT. I'm working on getting my pack down to a very light load so I can bring a couple of luxury items. I really want to sleep on something more than a 1/8'' half length foam pad. I'd like some comfort as I get back pain, and as I sleep on my stomach and side a lot. Suggestions? I'll be using a WM alpinelite bag.

[Steve McQueen]

Check out the Montbell UL Sleep System… I have the UL Comfort System 120 pad (12.7 oz, $65) and the attached UL CS Pillow (2.3 oz, $30). Sort of heavy by the Ultra-liters here…but a great system…super comfortable…esp if you can sacrifice a few oz.

http://montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=33&p_id=1124274

[John Haley]

I, too, have decided to get a bit more comfort than the Nightlight Torso on my upcoming Colorado Trail thru. I chose the Montbell 90 UL pad and the UL pillow, but the pillow won't be available until March from Montbell online. I' buy it elsewhere, but can't find it available… anywhere.

[Steven Evans]

Another vote for the Montbell UL 90 @ 9.8oz paired with the UL pillow @ 2.4 oz. I just went to this system last year after the torso foamie started to kill me :). If you are having trouble sourcing stuff, this goes for you too John, try to contact "Brett" here on the forums. He has sent me a number of montbell items straight from Japan. Better prices and faster shipping – hard to beleive but true!

[Anonymous]

The Montbell pad and pillow are under close scrutiny to be added to my “to purchase” list but I am curious as to how the pillow connects to the pad. Does anyone know if the space between the top of the pad and the pillow can be adjusted? A gap of 6” to a foot would be ideal for how I use my sleeping pad.

[Andrew King]

You might want to check out the POE Ether Thermo 6. For the 2/3 length pad, 16oz will get you 2.5" of luxurious insulated comfort. Thicker material and better durability than the BA inflatable pads too. Depends on the comfort/weight point you are looking for I suppose.

http://pacoutdoor.com/2007/index.cfm?action=product&productID=132&groupID=23&familyID=1

[Steven Evans]

John,
The distance between the pillow and the pad is basicaly nil. They are butt right up against each other and hold tight no matter how much you move. I guess you could extend the line between them, but the pillow would move around a lot more.
HTH

[Anonymous]

Well Steve, that’s too bad. I guess I will skip the pillow. Before going lightweight, stuffing my pack with extra stuff, mainly jackets and clothes, worked great and provided a good night’s sleep but now there is not enough stuff and thus the need for some extra elevation for the noggin. The BPL pillow was good except mine would never completely deflate.

[Steven Evans]

Andrew, that pad is beyond impressive. It states an R value of 6.8 and 7.8 (variable depending on different sections of the pad). With that rating, and at 16 oz, that has to be the lightest winter pad around? I might have to get one if I can get some feedback on it. My DM7 is a 1/2 pound heavier and rated at 4.9! Tell me I'm dreaming?

[Mark Verber]

I would second going with an insulated air mattress if you want real luxury.

The previous version of the thermo was approx the same insulate as the BA insulated air core, ~R4. The new model claims to be more than 50% more insulating which put it very close to the Warmlite DAM when it comes to r-value/oz. I wonder if the specs are a bit off. Now if a bit of aerogel was being used, but I doubt that based on the moderate cost. This is when having an outside testing org would be really nice.

If the thermo 6 is really R6-7, and I had to replace my BA Insulated Air core, I would certainly think long and hard about switching pads. When the pads were equal warms I prefered the BA's flatter surface (8 tubes rather than 6) but of extra insulation would be tempting.

Especially if I get one of the BA Clearview pads (12oz) for my birthday. I could use the Clearview for 2 seasons and then switch to thermo 6 and most likely ditch one of the two foam oam pad I bring on winter trips since R7 would match what I am getting from my BA insulated aircore + foam.

–Mark

[Patrick Craddock]

what do you guys think about the durability of your pads? I'll be hiking long distance, and having been a victim of 2 separate blowouts, I hesitate a bit on insulated pads.

[Mike W]

…

[Mark Verber]

There are some people who have reported problems with BA durability. Most of these reports have the mat failing pretty quickly. I know several people who have hundreds of nights on a BA, with the pad showing no signs off problems. I haven't heard any reports of the PAC pads failing.

As to the prolite 4 short -vs- insulated air mattress… the PAC 2/3 length would be the same weight, and the petite length of the BA is just 2oz heavier for a longer and warmer pad. Not to mention more comfortable. No contest as far as I am concerned.

–mark

[Brett Peugh]

Okay, I have owned the POE Ether Thermo 6 and currently own the Thermarest Prolite 4 Regular and Big Agnes Insulated Air Core Regular. The Thermarest is just junk compared to the other two. I sleep on my side and I pretty much have to inflate it fully so that I don't bottom out on my hip. I didn't see any real differences between the POE and the BA. Someone above said that the POE is more durable and warmer but it did not seem that way to me.

[Andrew King]

I own and have used all 3 pads as well. No question about the improved comfort with the 2.5" inflatables. And while the BA has not failed me or any of my hiking companions (yet), I have more confidence in the POE pad constructed with the thicker 70D bottom. You can go over to the BPL user reviews to see numerous examples of BA pads that have developed leaks in the field. Perhaps the BA quality issue has been fixed in the more recent builds? For me, I will still go with the better specs and improve my odds as much as I can.

[Brad Rogers]

For comfort and warmth you might also look at the Exped Downmats.

[Mike W]

…

[Mike Hinsley]

I've started to move away from Thermarests and back towards the standard foam mats – it's lighter and warmer.

The one I use is a NATO issue thick foam mat which is surprisingly comfortable (for a foam mat). I have contoured the pad to be more of a thermarest tapered shape – merely to shed a bit of weight. It now weighs in about 220g for an all-year pad.

[Lynn Tramper]

Your sleeping style is probably the most important thing to take into consideration here. My partner (a hard core side/front sleeper) and I have 2 full length Stephenson's DAMs @ around 24 oz each. This should be the ultimate lap of luxury pad, and it is for my partner. But for me (a 100% back sleeper) I hate it. My arms hang miserably off the pad, I feel a bit sea-sick at times because of the way it wobbles when I move, it's heavy, and it's prone to punctures. The last is in theory as we've never had the problem (yet), but I always worry about going from 4 inches of insulation to virtually zero due to a leak.

My pad of choice for most situations is a Ridgerest cut down to Torso size. Or a Ridgerest of any size really, but that's as a back sleeper….

[Ross Bleakney]

You might try a combination of pads. I've found that a straight GG nightlight (http://tinyurl.com/8whqu) is often not enough padding for the lumpy ground (mostly roots) of many a Northwest camp spot. I combine it with a thinlight or two. My wife combines a short thermarest with the thinlight to get both extra warmth and cushioning. Maybe combining a Montbell pad with a thinlight and/or a section or two of nightlight might work. I haven't experimented, but it seems like you could just lay them next to each other (with the Montbell pad just in the shoulders to hip area and the other foam pads below). The nice thing about the Montbell is that they come in various sizes (as do the closed cell pads since you can always cut it). If you go with just closed cell pads, I definitely recommend the GG pads.

[John G]

I hear the "20 inch" wide Exped DAMs are actually 22.5" wide when inflated. Is this the case ?

How about the Big Agnes AirCores, Poe Thermos & Stephenson DAMs ?

Thanks.

[David Wills]

Here is an email correspondence between the support from POE and I from October 07.

Me:
i am in the market for an insulated inflatable mat and was recently comparing figures. I am curious how your mats are the same weight as BA Insulated Aircore mats but provide up over 60% more warmth (r value) than they do while having a heavier bottom fabric. They use primaloft insulation which 88% as efficient as the most thermally efficient synthetic insulation on the market. thanks

Aaron from POE:
Howdy David,

I am thrilled that you are doing your research on the pads, and I hope that my additional information can help you make your choice.

First off, it is impossible to generate an R-Value on an Air Core or Air loft sleeping pad because of the nature of the measurement….you need a flat surface. With that being said, we recommend the Ether Thermo Series of sleeping pads for 3 season use. The best three season explanation is, if the snow sticks on the ground then you need a 4 season pad. We have tested our pads successfully to below 30 deg F, but do not recommend them to this temperature because of the nature of the pad and the environment that you would be camping in. IF you were to accidentally puncture the pad, there would not be enough insulation in the pad to protect you from the ground.

About the design: There is a significant design difference between our pad and the BA pad and that is one reason why it is warmer. Although there is only one chamber in both designs, because we weld the top fabric directly to the bottom fabric we minimize the air flow between tubes. This feature reduces the flow of air from the center of the pad to the edges and keeps that warm air under your body economizing the energy needed to heat up the air. Furthermore, the physics of the pad used to determine the warmth are derived from the insulation properties and heat tranfer of the air in the pad, and only a derivative of the insulation. Our insulation, although not brand name, is a hybrid of Hollofill and Thinsulate. Made of hollo tubes, these tubes are formed into the snowflakes and "spun" into a "quilted" form that is hung in each of the tubes. This material , although providing some of the insulation for the pad is designed to reduce the thermo-siphoning of air that can circulate between you and ground. These are the physics principles that our lead designer (College Physics Major) employed when he created this pad 4 years ago when we won our first Backpackers Gear Guide Award for the Max Thermo (now named Ether Thermo 6).

Shoot me an email if you have any other questions or if there is anything that I can help you out with. Here is the link the Ether Thermo 6 on the REI website:

http://www.rei.com/Search.do?cat=40001452&brand=Pacific+Outdoor+Equipment&hist=cat%2C40001452%5Ebrand%2CPacific+Outdoor+Equipment

Best of Luck.

Cheers,

Aaron

[Steve McQueen]

Is it just me, or does that thing look like it belongs in a swimming pool? No cup-holders tho….

[Ryan Gardner]

I never hear any talk on this site about the REI brand pads. Any reason for this? My short length weighs in at 17.9 oz (definitely not light – but this is my luxury item). It's at about the same R-value as the ProLite 4 (the ProLite has it by .1) but it seems to be made of higher quality material. The ProLite 3 and 4 just seem a little "cheap" to me. I also like the valve better on the REI.

Does anyone use this pad?

[John G]

My wife and I used to use REI self inflating pads. They were a great value. Compared to the Thermarests we eventually switched to- the REI's were a bit warmer, abrasion resistant, heavier, and not quite as soft. I think it's because the cover material is about 20-30 denier sturdier and the foam has less holes drilled in it.

The 2" / 2 pound size my wife needed to keep waking up with sore hips weighed about 6 oz more. However, she was quite a bit more comfortable with the Thermarest since it had much squishier foam (more holes ??). The Thermarest also rolled up easier (valve diameter is probably a little bigger) and it only took up about 3/4 the amount of pack space as the REI pad. The space issue turned out to be a BIG deal in my pack…

Now that we're a decade older, and also need to carry some of our kids gear in our packs – we're switching to insulated Air mattresses… Probably Exped for the extra width. I hate 20" pads every time I turn over at night. I wish they made 3/4 length pads in the wide 25" width. If anyone knows of one please let me know !

[Author]

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