Thinking quilt

[Tommy Clapp]

I have a Golite feather that weighs in at 29oz for a 20degree bag.

I am thinking I am ready to try a quilt for colder weather to help cut weight and for more comfort.

What tips do you all have about making this switch? any challenges?

I have a GG night lite and thinlite for ground insulation.

Tommy

[Brett Peugh]

I would think you might want to switch over to an inflatable pad like an Exped Downmat or a Big Agnes Insulated. You could use a short inflatable pad and then one of the others under your legs. You might also want to bring along a down jacket you could wear during rest time and and an extra pair of tights and socks in addition to the jacket while sleeping to help extend the rating on the bag.

[Tommy Clapp]

Why an air matt? Is the weight worth the tradeoff? I will be using the quilt inside of a MLD bivy.

I do have a NF 800 fill down jacket as well as sleep layers. I was wanting to push down to about 10 deg. I know I can with my Golite feather and my down jacket, but the weight is higher. I figured a nice JRB quilt would take weight off.

I have used quilts for summer use and really enjoy them.

Tommy

[todd]

If you're like me and roll in your sleep then drafts will be an issue. (I use JRB quilts, by the way) Note that drafts generally aren't an issue if you sleep in a hammock!

To stop this, some have succes sewing strips of material down each side to tuck underneath, a-la Jardine. JRB has adopted a similar approach via velcro. A lightweight bivy works best when on the ground, IMO. The bivy also adds more than a touch of warmth by trapping additional air inside.

Some quilts have permanent footboxes sewn in, while others can be opened or shut. Read reviews here and on HammockForums, then pick one!

[Tommy Clapp]

Todd,

would you go back to a bag now over a quilt? I don't move too much when I sleep. but i do side sleep some. Honestly I have fallen asleep and woken up in the exact same position, so i think a quilt could work well.

Tommy

[Jeff Boone]

If you call either of the Jack's, I believe they'll be happy to add the velcro to your existing quilt. They've made it to combine with their Down To Earth pad.

[George Gagesch]

I have both the JRB Nest and a Nunatak Arc Alpinist. The differences in the weight of fill is by design and not to be compared. One is designed to be warmer. The differences is in the use. They both are wide enough to help stop drafts. The other feature that makes a difference is the foot box. The Nunatak is permanantly closed not giving you option to lay flat like a blanket, but the Nest foot box never stays closed for me. The velcro always opens up. I have considered making changes to it like adding button loops to help this problem. To sum it up, if you look at other quilts take a look at their width and how the foot box closes.

[Brett Peugh]

Only an insulated air mat. I do not know how cold you sleep but a lot of people have found that if they can keep the underside of them real warm that they need a lot less over them.

[todd]

Tommy,

I can't say I won't use a bag again. However, ask a few others who spend more nights in colder climates what they think. While I do get to spend a few nights in the cold each year, living in Florida keeps me from getting out as much as I'd like, where I'd like!

If you don't roll, definitely buy a quilt! With the flexibility and weight savings, you can afford to add an insulated top to increase the temp rating when needed!

Todd

[Tommy Clapp]

Brett,

So switching to a BA or exped would add more weight than my current setup. Those pads are nice but they weigh alot compaired to my current pad setup. Is that really the best way to go with a quilt? I don't sleep overly cold, but I am not a heat box. I am wanting to quilt down to 10deg as a max low.. really 20 would probably do.

Here is alist of my potential shelter/sleeping setup Please give tips

JRB No Sniveller 20oz with stuff sack
JRB hood 1oz
MLD super lite bivy 7oz
GG Thin lite 1/4 4oz
GG nite lite 8oz
Solo tarp 9oz
Total 49oz

Clothing worn to bed
Columbia midweight fleece layer top
Patigonia Midweight capalene bottoms
Wool socks
GSX midweight shirt
TNF prism optimus down jacket 21oz
Turtle fur beanie 2oz

Tommy

[Frank Deland]

Many use a double pad system in winter. For example, put an Exped over your current GG pad. Plenty of cold comes up from the ground.

[George Gagesch]

If it gets cold enough outside, lets say below 20*, a second pad is a pretty good idea. Winter camping does add some weight. After switching to hammocking it really impressed on me what little insulating benefits compressed down has. The Nunatak AA is rated at 20*, but at those temps I definately wear my clothes to bed. With a quilt there is going to be a little leakage (more in a tent then a hammock). Having the full material like with the BA bags may help prevent drafts, but they do weigh more and are not as flexible. I like to hang a foot or arm out if I warm up. I find a quilt very versatile. If by some chance you hang, my suggestion would be a beefed up Nunatak Ghost. It is not as wide as the AA and if you use a underquilt it all wraps around you.

[P. P.]

With an exped downmat you won't need a second pad. Really.

[Tommy Clapp]

What temp would I be looking at for the setup listed above?

I also have a TNF diad and breathable rain pants to use as a vapor barrier.

Tommy

[Timothy Cristy]

If you wore everything, maybe low 20s.

I was recently out where it was 36 the first night and around 25 the second. I used the JRB Hudson River quilt, JRB hood, the 1/8" Down to Earth Converter, and a Downmat 7 short under the torso with a GG Nightlight under the legs. Also used a Ti Goat Bivy. I wore fairly heavy fleece and my wind shell to bed. The first night, I was toasty. The second I awoke several times cold enough I strongly considered putting on my down coat and synthetic puffy pants. Each time, I was able to move around a bit to generate some heat and go back to sleep, but it was a close-run thing.

[mark henley]

I spent a week on the AT two weeks ago with temps around 30 with a lot of wind (water bottles all froze up as soon as opened)down to the high 20's.

I used a MYOG quilt made of 2.5 oz XP (two layers in the foot and one layer in the chest area) with a momentum shell and wore my Micropuff pullover to bed every night. I also used a MYOG Bivy made of DWR nylon and Spin cloth.

For pad I used a 3/4 Insulmat inflatable on top and my ULA conduit pack for my legs and feet.

Even just wearing a fleece balaclava for the head I felt very warm wearing smartwool socks and just light thermals on my legs … when the temp rose above 34 degrees I had to strip off my micropuff pullover and my balaclava.

I'm sold on XP as an insulation and have no plans on going back to Down anytime soon.

Entire sleep system:

18 oz oversize quilt
7 oz Bivy
15 oz pad

Clothing:

14 oz micropuff jacket
1 oz light fleece balaclava
1 oz light fleece gloves
6 oz for light thermals

Total :
40 oz for the Sleep System
22 oz for the clothing system

[Shahrin Bin Shariff]

Mark, Can you share your quilt design? Any photos?

[Steven Evans]

"Why an air matt? Is the weight worth the tradeoff?"

Absolutely. Do a search for "winter sleep systems" – it's been a popular topic lately. If your looking to hit 10F, unless you've done it before, I don't think you would be very toasty on the nightlite/thinlite combo (I consider that a summer combo). My personel experince is that the warmer my sleeping pad (ie. Downmat7 short) the lighter I can go on the bag. Worth the extra weight!

[mark henley]

58 inches wide and 84 inches long …. oversized so I don't have to mess with straps, or tie downs, or whatever. I stuff the quilt in the Bivy, slip into the quilt at bedtime, and no matter how much I toss and turn during the night (which is a lot) the Quilt doesn't move off of me. The quilt weighs in at 18 oz …. I calculate that I could reduce the size to about 54 x 76 and get it right at 16 oz for this design.

Smaller size quilts were always getting twisted around for me, or I'd get a breeze up the backside sometime during the night.

No Quilting … I stuff the Bivy and Quilt together into the bottom of my pack … and pull on the bivy to take it out of the pack … saving the insulation from getting pulled. No quilting means that other than just being careful with it, you also can not machine wash the quilt … only hand wash and hang dry for this puppy, but a small price to pay for an unbroken momentum top.

Lastly … a zipperless bag, like the design by Bill F. would be a more efficent design if you don't like the varible insluation cross section and would eliminate the need for a Bivy. YMMV

[Shahrin Bin Shariff]

Thanks Mark. Simple, just the way I like it. 2.5osy Climashield XP all around except the footbox right? Sandwich the insulation between 2 momentum and sew at the edges right?

[George Matthews]

>>>> I am thinking I am ready to try a quilt for colder weather to help cut weight and for more comfort.

What tips do you all have about making this switch? any challenges?
================
Tips: Buy on sale when possible and/or look for good bargains. Make sure you have a flexible system to make adjustments for varying temps and conditions.

I've been using Jacks R Better No Sniveller quilt + BMW VAPR bivy + GG NightLight Sleeping Pad (Torso length) and GG ThinLight Insulation Pad 1/8 in.

Also have Cocoon UL 60 Hoody and Pants. So far have not been cold enough to wear the pants. But my plan is to keep using my quilt, etc. until I get cold. I'm a warm sleeper. When I reach the limits of my quilt, etc. I might try a warmer pad. Or I might whimp out and just wait for Spring. : )

Challenge: getting everything and me into the bivy. It's fantastic after everything is situated, and I'm getting better with practice. First time I tried it, I worked up a pretty good sweat.

Good luck!

[Donna C]

Mark-
I'm not familiar with the qualities of the XP material. If it gets wet, does it dry fairly easily?

[mark henley]

Yes …. I've found it to dry really fast.

[Paul Wozniak]

Questions for Mark Henley,

First of all let me congratulate you on a fine looking quilt.

I am looking at a couple of quilt options which go 52" wide at the shoulders, or going DIY/W (W=wife). I am hoping for pretty good coverage while turning over in the night and your 58" width sounds good but I'm not sure if it's needed. I'm 6'0", 210# and broad at the shoulders.

So, kind of a personal question Mark. How big are you? I'm trying to get a handle on the right width for me by "going to school" on your experience.

Can you provide the sources for your materials and your estimated project cost? Are you still pleased with the quilt durability and loft?

Thanks for your help.

Paul

[mark henley]

hummmmm …. I can take that in a couple of different ways ;o)

Seriously …. I have a shoulder girth of 60 inches, give or take a half inch when measured around the biceps.

I'm about 5'11" tall and I toss and turn A LOT during the night.

I've found that adding 10 inches to your max girth is a good rule of thumb for max comfort for the sleep system. You can get by with 8 inches, but 10 works best.

So …. a 20 inch wide pad, subtracted from a 60 plus 10, or 70 inch requirement, leaves you with about 50 inches. Now …. how much material do you want to drape on the groud and overlap? That's the real question.

54 inch quilts leave me drafty when I turn over, so I would use less width for a warmer weather quilt and more for a colder weather quilt. For me, assuming my quilt will go down to 30, I like a 58 inch width, leaving me 8 inches of overlap, 4 per side, that I can tuck under the pad, or roll up in, or whatever.

straps also change the equation, as long as you're always planning on using them, and reduces the amount of overlap you need …. any way you look at it, I wouldn't feel comfortable for a cool weather quilt to go less than a 56 inch width with straps.

For a summer quilt, However, I have a 48 by 72 inch quilt that comes up to my armpits. I've used drawstrings in the foot area to make a sortof footbox that works well enough for 45 and above, then used one layer of primaloft(.6 inch loft). This is more than enough with an insulated jacket or vest on and a sock hat for warmer temps.

That quilt comes in at about 11 oz but has a higher clo than xp (.83).

As for the thickness of the insulation … well, that's very dependent on you.

My formula is 60 – (total clo * comfort factor)= temp rating.

You can figure out your current comfort factor by looking at what you currently use for a sleeping bag and calculating backwards. My comfort factor is about 7.9 … so, XP with a total clo of around 2 will yield a temp rating for me of about 42 degrees all alone. Clothing or a jacket will adjust this.

My wife, however, would freeze with that same quilt. Her comfort factor is more in the range of 5. The same quilt would be a 50 degree quilt for her.

How warm or cold you sleep will be the difference in what your personal comfort factor happens to be. I happened to put a double layer of xp in the foot box of my quilt because if my feet and torso are warm I can still sleep if my legs are chilled. Once my torso, head, or feet get cold I'm done.

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